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Open Discussion => Natural Gas Leasing => New York => Topic started by: PaShaleAdvocate on January 12, 2018, 09:53:32 AM

Title: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: PaShaleAdvocate on January 12, 2018, 09:53:32 AM
It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices

Governor Andrew Cuomo’s bad policy decisions on pipelines and fracking in New York are causing northeast gas prices to skyrocket.

http://naturalgasnow.org/stupid-is-as-stupid-does-on-northeast-gas-prices/
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 12, 2018, 02:29:09 PM
Who is getting rich on those high prices ?
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 16, 2018, 11:36:43 AM
Who is getting rich on those high prices ?

pretty much anyone who's getting a royalty check wax.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 16, 2018, 12:23:00 PM
Who is getting rich on those high prices ?

pretty much anyone who's getting a royalty check wax.

wj

Russian royalty checks wj.

The Gaselys tanker is due to arrive in Boston on Jan. 22 after loading fuel from storage tanks at the U.K.’s Isle of Grain, according to ship-tracking data compiled by Bloomberg. The vessel docked at Grain shortly after the terminal near London received the first cargo from the $27 billion Yamal LNG plant in Russia’s icy north.

“Gas from anywhere is profitable into that northeastern U.S. gas market as prices are the highest in the world,” said Trevor Sikorski, head of natural gas, coal and carbon at Energy Aspects Ltd. in London.

https://www.lngworldnews.com/uk-sends-russian-lng-to-us/
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 16, 2018, 12:36:01 PM
Who is getting rich on those high prices ?

pretty much anyone who's getting a royalty check wax.

wj
  do you really think it's those receiving  royalties or is it the middle guy    you would think that by the time it get's in the tanker  all cost & royalties would be paid at a predetermined price & it's now in the brokers hand   to try to get as much as he can for it  I'm sure at times he loses but other times like the last couple times he wins big
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 16, 2018, 01:07:49 PM
Who is getting rich on those high prices ?

pretty much anyone who's getting a royalty check wax.

wj

Russian royalty checks wj.


Russian gas is not privately owned the way it is here.

but suffice it to say that royalty owners who are receiving checks here in nepa are doing very well.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 16, 2018, 01:12:01 PM
Who is getting rich on those high prices ?

pretty much anyone who's getting a royalty check wax.

wj
  do you really think it's those receiving  royalties or is it the middle guy    you would think that by the time it get's in the tanker  all cost & royalties would be paid at a predetermined price & it's now in the brokers hand   to try to get as much as he can for it  I'm sure at times he loses but other times like the last couple times he wins big

we're never gonna cash in on every aspect of the gas business rat. I'm happy that we are finally exporting now that Obama is gone, because well...Obama is gone, but also it is a new market and reduces the glut.

I'm happy, aren't you happy?

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 16, 2018, 02:33:37 PM
Who is getting rich on those high prices ?

pretty much anyone who's getting a royalty check wax.

wj

Russian royalty checks wj.


Russian gas is not privately owned the way it is here.

but suffice it to say that royalty owners who are receiving checks here in nepa are doing very well.

wj
The topic is on, the New England sky high market. If Pa. gas was in that market, royalty owners would be doing better yet.
A lot of money being made by traders in the Russian market. I was aware all minerals in Russia are owned by Gov.  But, kind of like, US Gov land, and water rights.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 16, 2018, 02:41:07 PM
happy as happy can be  but all this can turn around in a heart beet    if the dems regain control   
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: kodaz on January 16, 2018, 02:51:22 PM
And yet somehow I have not seen a gas check from good ole Ches for 3 months.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 16, 2018, 03:19:10 PM



  Has the unit been producing gas ?
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 16, 2018, 04:45:28 PM
And yet somehow I have not seen a gas check from good ole Ches for 3 months.
Yep! not everyone is a "partner" in lease language. :(

“How is that going to help the lady in Terry Township who got a bill for $186,000 on a little over 20 acres?” said Commissioner Daryl Miller. “It’s a drop in the bucket.
https://www.thedailyreview.com/news/local/commissioners-chesapeake-royalty-settlement-proposal-outrageous/article_4d5ec9c0-ec53-11e7-a876-5f0d7ae823ed.html
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: kodaz on January 16, 2018, 05:24:18 PM
Stat been paying on it, so I will guess it is producing.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 16, 2018, 06:59:31 PM



  Negative royalty. Been there. ???
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 16, 2018, 07:05:45 PM
?  what's stats minimum  pay amount   what's chessy amount    what percent does chessy have what percent does  stat have  I would like to get full story on lady in terry    did she pay it was she already paid that amount by mistake was it just a clerical era did she have a off the wall lease
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 16, 2018, 07:08:11 PM



  Negative royalty. Been there. ???
you received a bill which you paid?
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 16, 2018, 07:42:58 PM



  No, did you. Of course not. You get 20% with no deductions.
 Go away.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: windycamel on January 16, 2018, 08:07:34 PM
yep. stupid is as stupid does. I got to get more into the entertainment value of this forum. where by one can really enjoy learning. :)
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 16, 2018, 08:08:36 PM
your post made it sound like you did care to explain
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 16, 2018, 08:28:35 PM



  Care to explain why you care.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 16, 2018, 10:15:10 PM
so it's not true   you didn't receive a negative royalty  you didn't get charged    if you didn't you shouldn't make false statements  it'll hurt newcomers to the site
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 16, 2018, 10:42:55 PM



  Well technically, on Chesapeakes books, it would be a negative number. Whether or not they are subtracting that much from future royalties is still up in the air. They have done it the past. Are they still doing it ? Why don't you let us knpw.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 17, 2018, 07:54:10 AM
so really don't know  could be they over paid at some point  just recouping there money  never seen a negative statement  post a copy  ?   knpw?
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 17, 2018, 08:02:16 AM



  Again, you are a no deduct 20 percenter. Good for you. There are thosands of people in NE PA that have been ripped off by Chesapeake for many years. You and others have tried to tamp down that topic here.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: ghrit on January 17, 2018, 08:31:11 AM

 Go away.
Matty, reading that leads me to think you're feeling all butt hurt about something.  One of these days, it might occur to you that it's your own posts that draw attention leading to anal pain.  You may lessen the pain by going away yourself rather than demanding it of others.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 17, 2018, 08:42:42 AM



  Not going away. Hopefully Chesapeake is. ???
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 17, 2018, 08:50:42 AM


  G, this is not your fight either. I have friends and family that are getting ripped. You also have a no deduct lease and are not even with Chesapeake. Why are you chiming in. Rat is some sort of Chessie groupie. We all know that.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 17, 2018, 09:17:56 AM
just looking for facts   most off your post belong in the fiction  worthless  sections  along with the jug of brown water  mostly fiction tho
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 17, 2018, 09:23:36 AM



  I know. Fake News. Keep trying.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 17, 2018, 09:53:26 AM

 Go away.
Matty, reading that leads me to think you're feeling all butt hurt about something.  One of these days, it might occur to you that it's your own posts that draw attention leading to anal pain.  You may lessen the pain by going away yourself rather than demanding it of others.

some will choose to understand and plan, others like matty, will choose to wallow in ignorance and self pity and hope that others will join his pity party.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 17, 2018, 10:13:33 AM



  Not a pity party. I was waiting for you. Another no deducter.
 Its pointing out facts. Numbers dont lie. Its coming to head but many have been cheated and that money will never be recouped.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: ghrit on January 17, 2018, 10:36:22 AM


 Why are you chiming in.
Because your incessant whining and raving about CHK has become very old, and is making you no friends nor arousing sympathy for you or that mythical myriad you claim exists.  It is especially egregious for you, a non resident, to be dipping your wick in our lamp oil.  With all those friends and family that are getting ripped off, one would suppose they could speak up for themselves, yet we have crickets.  The fact that they don't chime in sorta points to you creating a fake, phony, mythical clan that you can claim you speak for.  In other words, I no longer believe you if indeed I ever did.

Shakespeare said something in one of the plays about a ghost.  I'll paraphrase it here.  "Get thee gone" and let us real residents of the gas field deal with what affects us.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 17, 2018, 10:53:26 AM



  Coming from a 2 acre stake that has no bearing on the biggest issue in the NE gasfield.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: kenneth12 on January 17, 2018, 12:09:33 PM
  Not a pity party. I was waiting for you. Another no deducter.
 Its pointing out facts. Numbers dont lie. Its coming to head but many have been cheated and that money will never be recouped.
Oh, OK!  Since I have the same lease as Kodaz and also have not seen a CHK check in three months (but StatOil has been dribbling again the whole time) I guess maybe that I meet your high standards  headpat.  YOU ARE HAVING A PITY PARTY!!!  And it IS getting old and your irrationality can indeed be confusing to any newcomer here who just might think that you pass along accurate information.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 17, 2018, 01:15:21 PM



  You have other issues also. Screwy lease terms. You are not typical boilerplate. I'm with McClinko. Im jumping up and down. Fix this.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: ghrit on January 17, 2018, 01:51:25 PM



  Coming from a 2 acre stake that has no bearing on the biggest issue in the NE gasfield.
So you are qualified to determine who's stake matters?  OK, yours is biggest.  That's settled, you win.  Now "Get thee gone."  (Two acres is grossly inaccurate, by the way. )
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: kenneth12 on January 17, 2018, 02:12:30 PM
  You have other issues also. Screwy lease terms. You are not typical boilerplate. I'm with McClinko. Im jumping up and down. Fix this.
Now if only you'd hold your breath...
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 17, 2018, 02:37:13 PM
The forum has, about ten members who post. And those folks, know each others comments before they are posted. The forum (cpu) itself, follows every search by guest and members. Most of the post looked at are old post. And very few people are willing to share their views. That does not mean they do not have a opinion. I thought their was several class action suits against CHK ? And a case by the DA. And it's all because they screwed only Cal ? I heard the word, "thousands" in Bradford County alone, spoken by a county commissioner. I will tell you this. Their is not a lot of noise on this forum, but many, many, many complained to get this movement started. And it an't over till its over. And as usual, those who done nothing at all, will benefit, by the sweat and toil of those who worked for everyone.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 17, 2018, 03:05:52 PM
And as usual, those who done nothing at all, will benefit, by the sweat and toil of those who worked for everyone.

and posting incessant, inaccurate, hyperbolic drivel on this forum is doing pretty much nothing.

is there an issue with chk involving thousands in bradco? yup.

are there people who are getting bills for deductions that exceed their royalty income? nope. that would violate their lease terms.

will there be a settlement with chk? sure will, and how good that settlement will be, is not affected by some anonymous nitwit saying over and over that he wants chk kicked out of the state. such statements are ridiculous and serve no useful purpose.

we 10 or so posters here are a remnant of a once vibrant community that existed before, and dwindled after the arrival of macal.

but yes, some folks are doing actual good work regarding the chk situation. you just can't hear them above his incessant whining and lying.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: shinobi on January 17, 2018, 04:01:01 PM
It is straightforward, really:

The entity known as "Chesapeake Energy" is an Oklahoma-based criminal conspiracy masquerading as a gas company, a development company, whatever.  Nothing could be more simple.

I was going to attempt posting examples from all around America of their "operations" and the resultant AA (adverse actions).  The task exceeds my ability.  Examples are far too numerous to detail individually.  But focus on their thievery in Bradford County, or even in Pennsylvania, exemplifies unvarnished myopia.  Chesapeake cheats at will wherever they operate . . . . and that includes venues far too numerous to mention.  Chesapeake pioneered and continues to champion the business approach whose touchstone is:

"If you don't like it, take us to court"

To wit:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=chesapeake%20energy%20lawsuits&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=chesapeake%20energy%20lawsuits&sc=8-26&sk=&cvid=0ADB215469EB4858911748673C1D410D (https://www.bing.com/search?q=chesapeake%20energy%20lawsuits&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=chesapeake%20energy%20lawsuits&sc=8-26&sk=&cvid=0ADB215469EB4858911748673C1D410D)

But that is overwhelmingly inadequate.  It would literally consume several days to aggregate news of all the AA aimed at Chesapeake Energy.  I have far better uses for my time.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 17, 2018, 04:48:42 PM
sure frank, we all know the story, the history with chk. many of us knew it when we signed with them.

so what's your solution going forward? go over and over and over the past? lamentations and lies?

or is it to weigh our options, and make the best decisions when the settlement finally comes?

for years I've been saying this. THERE WILL BE A SETTLEMENT!

if you have a better answer, I'm all ears.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: shinobi on January 17, 2018, 05:20:33 PM
Frank?  Are you by chance addressing me?  My name is not Frank.  I have never posted my real name on the net.  You may address me as "shin", if you wish.  I will address you as "wj" when wanting to be respectful.  I will address you as "aubrey" when wanting to liken you to shit.

And I never claimed to have a solution to Chesapeake's unrivaled illegalities, or for that matter a solution for the devil himself, an entity akin.

Instead my ongoing, overflowing, contempt for them proceeds from my lease.  While I'm not leased to the Chesapeake criminals, I signed a lease which allows my current gas company to sell their leased interest in my land as suits their business needs.  I believe many leases contain this provision.  Hence I, and many other forum members, are theoretically at risk so long as the Chesapeake criminal enterprise survives.

My anti-Chesapeake posts also are intended to inform newcomers to this forum who might have been approached by Chesapeake to lease their land.  People need to know the depth of depravity and unbridled lawlessness at Chesapeake, a scum-sucking entity of the first order.  And to that end, repeated recitation of such facts cannot be excessive.  This is by definition.

Now, wj, you inquired about Chesapeake's past lawlessness and bad behavior in general.  There we agree.  Of course all that stuff will eventually be settled in court or by negotiation, as was Chesapeake's business plan from the jump.

Let me sum up this way:  Anyone who leased their land to Chesapeake has a lease not worth the paper upon which it is printed.  If Chesapeake has not yet broken their commitments to you, they simply have not yet gotten around to you. 

Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 17, 2018, 10:10:16 PM
Now, wj, you inquired about Chesapeake's past lawlessness and bad behavior in general. 

no I didn't, stop making things up.

and btw, frank, is my Aubrey. it elicits these comical rants you sometimes go on that amuse us so much.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: shinobi on January 18, 2018, 08:47:11 AM
Now, wj, you inquired about Chesapeake's past lawlessness and bad behavior in general. 

no I didn't, stop making things up.

and btw, frank, is my Aubrey. it elicits these comical rants you sometimes go on that amuse us so much.

wj

Well, wj, you're right and I was imprecise.  You asked how people should deal with Chesapeake's past lawlessness and  bad behavior in general.  Then you went on to say how you believed that should happen (and I agree) and how all the carping needs to end (and I disagree).

But I can understand how our "lamentations" (to use your description) are too much for you to bear.  While feeling sorry for anyone so pugnacious as you is challenging, I do.  Your attitude appears to me an outgrowth of Stockholm syndrome, evidence of which exists in various ways to include even your screen name!!  That is not something I would wish even on the village idiot.

For anyone unfamiliar with Stockholm syndrome, here is a reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 18, 2018, 11:44:11 AM
Well, wj, you're right and I was imprecise.  You asked how people should deal with Chesapeake's past lawlessness and  bad behavior in general. 

nope...you weren't imprecise, you were wrong, and you're still wrong.

here was my question...

sure frank, we all know the story, the history with chk. many of us knew it when we signed with them.

so what's your solution going forward?


we all know their past, hell...everybody in the Marcellus who doesn't live under a rock knows the deal with chk. but rehashing the past is for emotional folks like you and macal, for me, the important thing is, what do we do to mitigate the damage already done.

when leasing was fast and furious, we tried to figure out our best options. that's over, but now we are faced with similar challenges in dealing with chk going forward. if you have solutions, tell us all about it, if not, you're of no help to those of us who have to figure these things out.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 18, 2018, 01:54:06 PM



  Its kinda like the Mexicans are going to pay for the wall.
  Just Kidding Suckers.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 18, 2018, 03:29:29 PM
since your calculator obviously doesn't work, try ciphering this with pencil and paper.

which is bigger...the 20 billion that mexico isn't gonna pay, or the 9 trillion that we were promised that obamacare would save us and failed to materialize.

nitwit.

 slaplaugh
   wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 18, 2018, 03:41:34 PM



  9 trillion. I never heard any promises like that. We are subsidizing people. They are saving money.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: shinobi on January 18, 2018, 04:06:32 PM
It's not Stockholm syndrome with wj.  I wrote that post up thread prior to seeing his post here:

http://www.naturalgasforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=27252.msg299740#msg299740 (http://www.naturalgasforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=27252.msg299740#msg299740)

He wrote as follows:


I added up 5 years of royalties on a chk leased property recently, and my take was around 8 grand an acre on a 1/8 royalty after deductions. there's only 1 well so far, so it looks like my estimate of $100,000/acre is gonna be a little low after the unit is fully developed.

very profitable indeed!

wj

Jim has a visceral reaction when his benefactor is attacked.  At this point looks to me as if Jim has even more money than Wax, and that's saying something!!  ;)

You see, I forget sometimes.  Jim and his SE Bradford BFFs are in the tall alfalfa when it comes to richness of their shale.  We have Marcellus shale, too, out here to the west where I live, also in Bradford County.  But our gas, our shale, is not so rich as theirs.  It peters out pretty quick by comparison.  And when we thought we had caught a break with our Utica, Jim was quick to point out it isn't even real, conventional, Utica gas and would never amount to anything.  So we're left with the dregs.

Course all that does not address so many hundreds of Bradford County families having been taken advantage of by Chesapeake.  But Jim has his.  Any further discussion is therefore merely "emotional".  And emotion is disallowed in Jim's rulebook.

The truth?  Truth is even though they are making Jim rich, Chesapeake still sucks.

 

Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 18, 2018, 04:11:12 PM



  Sad but True. ???  Spot on Shin.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: duffy on January 18, 2018, 04:27:00 PM
Location location location, if you are African American and working selling magazines on a street corner in Philadelphia and your stand is open 8 to 5 and a Vietnamese person is on the oppisite street corner but open 24/7 but taking your business you'd still bitch they were screwing you out of your HARD earned money. You signed the lease, you gave up your right to bitch, sorry to disrupt your fantasy.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 18, 2018, 04:33:37 PM



  Are you involved with NARO Duff? That's their job. To hear complaints and find solutions.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: ghrit on January 18, 2018, 05:03:18 PM



  9 trillion. I never heard any promises like that. We are subsidizing people. They are saving money.
I see no evidence that the subsidies we are giving out are being saved.  What nonsense is that?
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: duffy on January 18, 2018, 05:05:19 PM
Better yet....... ARE YOU INVOLVED WITH NARO??
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 18, 2018, 05:26:59 PM



  No. But can you sign me up ? ::)
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 18, 2018, 06:06:49 PM
Sad but True. ???  Spot on Shin.

there ya go frank, your new bff.

birds of a feather and all that, you guys need to get a room.

 slaplaugh
   wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 18, 2018, 06:11:37 PM
And when we thought we had caught a break with our Utica, Jim was quick to point out it isn't even real, conventional, Utica gas and would never amount to anything.  So we're left with the dregs.

the Utica (actually Trenton) still needs to be frac'd, so no, they're not conventional wells.

as to your prospects, time will tell. let us know if they pay you another bonus for your Utica and then drill monster wells. i'll be happy for ya. maybe that will make you a little less emotional.

 slaplaugh
   wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 18, 2018, 06:42:39 PM



  He just calls them like he sees them.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: shinobi on January 18, 2018, 07:06:53 PM
And when we thought we had caught a break with our Utica, Jim was quick to point out it isn't even real, conventional, Utica gas and would never amount to anything.  So we're left with the dregs.

the Utica (actually Trenton) still needs to be frac'd, so no, they're not conventional wells.

as to your prospects, time will tell. let us know if they pay you another bonus for your Utica and then drill monster wells. i'll be happy for ya. maybe that will make you a little less emotional.

 slaplaugh
   wj

Hmmm.  Apparently your great wealth is insufficient to afford you smarts as well.

When I made reference to "conventional" Utica it was to your claim that our Utica gas did not appear in the Utica layer, as is the case farther west, but instead in the adjacent limestone layer.  In that sense, appearance of Utica gas here where I live is "unconventional".

That said, I do acknowledge and appreciate your kind sentiments about my chances to lease my Utica . . . after you tore the dream to shreds.  But I will be OK either way.  I'm personally very fortunate and blessed.  Just wish we could get you to care more about Bradford County royalty owners, leased to your BFF Chesapeake, who are hurting and in distress.

But I guess it is possible to take the boy out of toney Bucks County, but impossible entirely to take ingrained Bucks County elitism out of the boy.  Heck wj, now with all your money you can afford to move back!!

And good golly you will fit right in with all the swells. slaplaugh

(http://cdn.patch.com/users/127196/2016/01/T800x600/20160156944e7e20cc2.jpg)

Where Jim feels most at home

Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Rockdale on January 18, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Shinobi, New Hope is definitely on the swanky side.  But I think if you want to find the true elite in Bucks County they are more likely to be around Mechanicsville and similar places.  That's not just people with money, but those who are Old Money, with that special patina that goes with having an ancestor who made the family its' money and not the present generation.  The portion of Bucks County that I know well is upper Bucks with the Bucks County line just a few miles from the old farmhouse I grew up in.  There wasn't anything particularly  elitist about the overwhelming majority of the population in that region.  It was a place of small and mid sized industries such as shoes, clothing and textiles where people made a slim living.  And scattered over the landscape were farms, mostly small and in many cases rather hardscrabble.  It would be a later generation of people from the outside with more money who could afford to redo those old stone farmhouses up to modern standards.  Interestingly, even in swanky Bucks County there were quite a few land owners who signed for gas leases and would have been quite happy to see drilling for natural gas into the South Newark formation, which was thwarted by NIMBY neighbors and politicians pandering to that constituency.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: duffy on January 18, 2018, 09:06:14 PM
Be glad to, but yet again you can do it on your own.... all it takes is a couple clicks......... but you already know that  :'(
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 18, 2018, 09:10:23 PM


He just calls them like he sees them.

we all do that.

and I think it's great that you 2 have each other to lean on and share your common goals. you both wanted to get rid of Corbett, and you both succeeded. kudos to both of you, I hope your friendship and comradery lasts forever. you 2 make a great team.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 18, 2018, 09:15:23 PM
Apparently your great wealth is insufficient to afford you smarts as well.

well frank, you should know better than anyone that money can't buy ya smarts.

me? I never hoped to be smart or rich. but I'm pretty happy with the way everything has turned out. and if I was to wish for anything, it would be to be happy.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: ghrit on January 18, 2018, 09:20:04 PM
Somebody said there are what, around 10 regular users on site?  We can do nicely with two fewer -  slaplaugh
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 18, 2018, 09:53:18 PM
ok, ok, I can take a hint g.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 18, 2018, 09:55:06 PM
yo duff!

I think g is tryin' to tell us somethin'.

let's go fishin'!

 slaplaugh
   wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 18, 2018, 10:01:20 PM
shin you may want to find another bff  you & Jim had some thought in your post  but take a look at post by your bff    10% may be a understatement
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: ghrit on January 18, 2018, 11:19:22 PM
yo duff!

I think g is tryin' to tell us somethin'.

let's go fishin'!

 slaplaugh
   wj

Um, ah --- crazy
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: shinobi on January 19, 2018, 09:32:12 AM
Guys the friendly repartee between Jim and me is fine but it serves no useful purpose on its own.  I was sure Jim would nail my ass with this one, it's so obvious, but he didn't so I'll have to nail my own ass in order to serve the larger community here and to attempt to educate:

I claimed up thread, in essence, you cannot have a good outcome with Chesapeake.  Jim has plainly proved me to be in error.  This if you take Jim at his word, and I do.

Bottom line, Jim has had a wonderful outcome with Chesapeake.  Period.  So it can be done if you're smart enough and (I guess) careful enough.  Many (hundreds of) other Bradford County landowners were less smart, less attentive, and less careful than was Jim when they signed their leases.  They were reamed by Chesapeake big time.

It would be a reasonable question to ask if other Bradford County landowners, and other Pennsylvania landowners, have had outcomes with Chesapeake equally as good as Jim's.  I cannot address that.  Here where I live, quite simply, Chesapeake does not operate.  I had one nearby friend leased with them.  Chesapeake sold that lease to Talisman, back when it was Talisman and not Repsol.  Chesapeake appears to want no part of our second-rate shale.  I guess they only operate in the tall alfalfa.  Frankly, I hope they never, ever become interested in our shale here.

Regardless, my bottom line counsel to anyone renewing with Chesapeake or leasing with them for the first time is to be incredibly careful with your lease.  Absent personal experience I'm unable to be more specific than that.  I continue to believe Chesapeake is a bad and very dangerous gas company.  But Jim has proved leasing success with them is possible.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 19, 2018, 10:41:44 AM

Bottom line, Jim has had a wonderful outcome with Chesapeake.  Period.  So it can be done if you're smart enough and (I guess) careful enough.  Many (hundreds of) other Bradford County landowners were less smart, less attentive, and less careful than was Jim when they signed their leases.  They were reamed by Chesapeake big time.


nope, you got it wrong again frank.

first of all, the "outcome" hasn't been reached yet. I'm in the same boat as everyone else in bradco who is leased to chk. the outcome will be after we see what the final settlement is. if it's good, then my outcome will be good, if not, I will have to decide whether it would be best to wait and settle on my own with them. time will tell.

the thing that you fail to recognize with me is this. I choose to be honest with regard to chk. are they snakes? absolutely. trustworthy? not at all. did I have a choice of whether to sign with them or another company? sure, but it wasn't a good one. would I rather be leased and produced by another company now? that's a tough one.

it's a tough question because I take the long view. although they are a terrible company in general to deal with, they drill a great well. they know how to produce a lot of gas, and they know how to market it. folks forget that we are in a terrible pricing environment, that will change with time, as the infrastructure and demand improve. they have shown in the past few winters, that they aggressively pursue higher pricing. other companies have not shown that on a comparative basis yet.

so, taking the long view, I look forward to fixed deductions after a settlement, at higher volumes and pricing than I might otherwise enjoy.

I can also look back. in 2010 and 11, we were enjoying massive monthly volumes and great pricing. even the higher deductions were not as big a factor when things were better. those days will return.

in the short term, I'm kinda anxious to see the volumes and pricing for this month. if they perform as before, i'll be very happy while continuing to look forward to my eventual "outcome".

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: shinobi on January 19, 2018, 11:08:45 AM
Fair enough, Aubrey.  I think we all realize now where you stand and the kind of thinking you employ.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 19, 2018, 11:37:23 AM
and make no mistake frank, it's the same thinking that I've always had.

before you arrived, i used the term, "it's just business" regarding chk. it still applies today. although we'd all like to have businesses treat us fairly and honestly, we know that some businesses are more ruthless than others. so what should we do in response?

treat all dealings with them in a businesslike manner. weigh all decisions rationally and thoroughly, void of emotions and hard feelings over past injustices.

fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me. hopefully, we don't get fooled again.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: duffy on January 19, 2018, 04:41:16 PM
yo duff!

I think g is tryin' to tell us somethin'.

let's go fishin'!

 slaplaugh
   wj
We can do that.... you bring the cider  handclap
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 19, 2018, 09:50:22 PM
first of all, the "outcome" hasn't been reached yet. I'm in the same boat as everyone else in bradco who is leased to chk. the outcome will be after we see what the final settlement is. if it's good, then my outcome will be good, if not, I will have to decide whether it would be best to wait and settle on my own with them. time will tell.

First off, your answer will not help me, but maybe others.
By saying your in the same boat with other CHK landowners. Based on what Ken & others stated they have not seen a royalty check in three months and other next to nothing. (as per newspapers ). Does your lease have better lease language to limit deductions. I have read stories of royalty owners getting 15K a month, before the Kilmer case, to several hundred a month now. It's your own business, but thought to ask.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: ghrit on January 19, 2018, 10:00:34 PM
I have read stories of royalty owners getting 15K a month, before the Kilmer case, to several hundred a month now.
The problem with that statement is that we don't know if it was the same landowners.  Different landowners, different sized lands, different checks.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 19, 2018, 10:12:54 PM
I have read stories of royalty owners getting 15K a month, before the Kilmer case, to several hundred a month now.
The problem with that statement is that we don't know if it was the same landowners.  Different landowners, different sized lands, different checks.
I did research, what I wrote and posted links to the same. Even JEB, made a similar remark. So, somehow, if deductions are allowed, they must be calculated differently. Does the sale price vary in the same county. Something is different.  But the unit price, of how gas is sold, is the same.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 19, 2018, 10:22:26 PM
By saying your in the same boat with other CHK landowners. Based on what Ken & others stated they have not seen a royalty check in three months and other next to nothing. (as per newspapers ). Does your lease have better lease language to limit deductions. I have read stories of royalty owners getting 15K a month, before the Kilmer case, to several hundred a month now. It's your own business, but thought to ask.

first off, don't believe what you read in the newspapers about the chk royalty situation.

second, be very discerning about what you read on the internet about it.

what ken said is true, I have many friends who haven't gotten a check from chk in 2-3 months. the reasons vary according to the individual situations, but the biggest factors are gas prices, and volumes produced for those months.

in answer to your question about my lease, I have royalty language that allows unlimited but proportionate deductions from my 1/8 royalties. ken has the Wyoming county lease which has slightly better language regarding deductions. basically, mine is about as bad as it gets since I'm leased to chk.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 19, 2018, 10:24:14 PM
has anyone read where these stories have been followed up on & all facts where looked at to get the full story   
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 19, 2018, 10:36:17 PM
I have read stories of royalty owners getting 15K a month, before the Kilmer case, to several hundred a month now.
The problem with that statement is that we don't know if it was the same landowners.  Different landowners, different sized lands, different checks.
I did research, what I wrote and posted links to the same. Even JEB, made a similar remark. So, somehow, if deductions are allowed, they must be calculated differently. Does the sale price vary in the same county. Something is different.  But the unit price, of how gas is sold, is the same.

this is frustrating to me, because this has all been discussed and explained in the past.

there is no way to take what you've read, or what jeb said and apply it across the board with chk royalty payments.

if you've been reading our discussions for example, you know that macal claims that his brother's deductions are in excess of $1.50/mcf, but many others say that theirs are much lower. mine are around $0.70/mcf.

yes, prices across the county vary too, but to a much smaller degree...normally. by normally, I mean that we have seen as much as a $4/mcf difference at times across the county, but that is rare.

another factor that varies widely, is volumes. they vary from area to area, and well to well.

all of those things affect individual's royalty payments differently, so there's no way to apply any one individual's circumstances to another....unless they have the same lease, with the same number of acres in the same unit with the same lesses.

it's complicated, and way beyond the ability of anyone not involved, to understand. I'm telling ya, you have to see this stuff firsthand. and not just a friends statement, but many people's, across the whole county.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 19, 2018, 10:41:48 PM
has anyone read where these stories have been followed up on & all facts where looked at to get the full story   

you're never gonna see anything like that.

it's too complicated for them to waste their time on.

they want to sell papers, and the stuff they print although often inaccurate and misleading, sells them.

hey, just look at doug mcclinko. he's a good guy and all. well meaning, good hearted....but he's so full of crap with some of the stuff he says, that he's a natural politician. but he should be a democrat.  slaplaugh

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 19, 2018, 11:03:28 PM
Yup, they want you to pay online to the story. The link might work. I am only the messenger and cannot verify the story. Maybe you know one of the farms.

Shale gas was going to make them rich. Then the checks arrived
Andrew Makuth, The Philadelphia Inquirer on Dec 24, 2017
Published in Business News

SUBSCRIBE   

 
Lynne and Bill Seligman thought they were protecting themselves in 2008 when they agreed to allow an Oklahoma company to explore for natural gas under their 91-acre Sullivan County, Pa., farm. They even paid a lawyer to help negotiate the lease.

But since Chesapeake Energy Co. drilled a well to capture gas from the rich Marcellus Shale formation deep under that property, the Seligmans' gas income has shrunk dramatically -- and not just because production declined or gas prices fell.

"I just feel they cheated us," said Lynne Seligman, a retired nursing-home consultant. "They made us promises they didn't fulfill, and I guess that's what really irritates me."

Chesapeake has cut royalty payments to many like the Seligmans, subtracting "post-production costs" from income the landowners said they were promised under the state's Guaranteed Minimum Royalty Act of 1979. The law provides that owners of mineral rights receive a minimum one-eighth share, or 12.5 percent, of the sale price of their oil and gas.

Many Marcellus producers began to deduct post-production costs after the Pennsylvania Supreme Court sanctioned the practice in 2010. But Chesapeake, the state's largest producer, has been the most aggressive about billing landowners for the costs.

Last year, Chesapeake reduced the Seligmans' $317.57 royalty share for April and May by 90 percent, mailing the Kennett Square family a check for $30.96 for the two months. The deductions were attributed to the costs of gathering, compressing, and transporting the gas.

Other disillusioned landowners say Chesapeake has reduced royalty payments below zero, essentially docking them for the gas produced on their properties.

Russ Forba, whose siblings share ownership of a large family property in Wyoming County, said Chesapeake assessed them "negative revenue" for 10 months during the past two years, and estimated that the company has deducted $1.5 million from their royalty payments since its wells began producing in 2014.

The most recent check, for production in August and September, amounted to $2,400, a 96 percent reduction from the gross royalty of $55,000, Forba said.

https://www.arcamax.com/business/businessnews/s-2032578
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 19, 2018, 11:07:45 PM
here's an example for ya to illustrate how complicated this royalty mess is.

I have a friend who has a large tract, in 3 different units, with 7 total wells, under 2 different leases. the number of lesses varies from unit to unit, and also with the leases he has.

the sales prices from well to well varies by as much as 20 cents, and his deductions range from around 80 cents to $1.20/mcf well to well, and vary month to month.

in the past 2 months, his checks have dropped from around $10k a month, to around $2k last month.

sounds bad right? upon closer inspection, we figured out that the volumes sold from all of the wells dropped...a lot. but why? the price had also dropped a lot, so it's probable that chk et al, shut the wells in partially, until prices increase again.

that was October, a bad month to sell gas. December should look a whole lot better.

but if the daily review had done a story on him, they would have told a dire tale of him losing 80% of his royalty income in 2 months! bad chk!  slaplaugh

and I guarandamteeya, they woulda never printed a followup for December when he went back to normal again. that's the way the papers have been covering this story. I've seen it firsthand.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 19, 2018, 11:27:28 PM
Yup, they want you to pay online to the story. The link might work. I am only the messenger and cannot verify the story. Maybe you know one of the farms.

Shale gas was going to make them rich. Then the checks arrived
Andrew Makuth, The Philadelphia Inquirer on Dec 24, 2017
Published in Business News

SUBSCRIBE   

 
Lynne and Bill Seligman thought they were protecting themselves in 2008 when they agreed to allow an Oklahoma company to explore for natural gas under their 91-acre Sullivan County, Pa., farm. They even paid a lawyer to help negotiate the lease.

But since Chesapeake Energy Co. drilled a well to capture gas from the rich Marcellus Shale formation deep under that property, the Seligmans' gas income has shrunk dramatically -- and not just because production declined or gas prices fell.

"I just feel they cheated us," said Lynne Seligman, a retired nursing-home consultant. "They made us promises they didn't fulfill, and I guess that's what really irritates me."

Chesapeake has cut royalty payments to many like the Seligmans, subtracting "post-production costs" from income the landowners said they were promised under the state's Guaranteed Minimum Royalty Act of 1979. The law provides that owners of mineral rights receive a minimum one-eighth share, or 12.5 percent, of the sale price of their oil and gas.

Many Marcellus producers began to deduct post-production costs after the Pennsylvania Supreme Court sanctioned the practice in 2010. But Chesapeake, the state's largest producer, has been the most aggressive about billing landowners for the costs.

Last year, Chesapeake reduced the Seligmans' $317.57 royalty share for April and May by 90 percent, mailing the Kennett Square family a check for $30.96 for the two months. The deductions were attributed to the costs of gathering, compressing, and transporting the gas.

Other disillusioned landowners say Chesapeake has reduced royalty payments below zero, essentially docking them for the gas produced on their properties.

Russ Forba, whose siblings share ownership of a large family property in Wyoming County, said Chesapeake assessed them "negative revenue" for 10 months during the past two years, and estimated that the company has deducted $1.5 million from their royalty payments since its wells began producing in 2014.

The most recent check, for production in August and September, amounted to $2,400, a 96 percent reduction from the gross royalty of $55,000, Forba said.

https://www.arcamax.com/business/businessnews/s-2032578

 I remember reading that quite a while ago.

everything in that article is likely true, but the information is not complete enough to form any conclusion other than anger and empathy for those folks.

the part about the supreme court is correct, except the word "sanction" is a bit misleading. they ruled on the meaning of the wording in the gmra.

"Last year, Chesapeake reduced the Seligmans' $317.57 royalty share for April and May by 90 percent, mailing the Kennett Square family a check for $30.96 for the two months. The deductions were attributed to the costs of gathering, compressing, and transporting the gas."

ok, but what was the sales price of the gas? and how much were the deductions? he doesn't tell us...why not?

"Russ Forba, whose siblings share ownership of a large family property in Wyoming County, said Chesapeake assessed them "negative revenue" for 10 months during the past two years, ."

again, price? deductions? the only way that would happen is if it cost more to get the gas to market, than they received for it. and we know that that happened. I remember prices of less that 60 cents a thousand when things were really bad. have they printed a followup now that prices are back up somewhat? nope.

wj




Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 19, 2018, 11:41:54 PM
Some people do not have common sense. After all you are selling a product. That part needs to be established before everything. Apples for Apples, as is said. The amount of gas  Mcf
is what royalties are paid on.  Would agree, some people will overlook that part do to lack of knowledge.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 19, 2018, 11:46:37 PM




Zach (http://www.naturalgasforums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=5311)[size=0.85em][/size][/size][size=0.85em][/size][size=0.85em][/size][size=0.85em][/size]Re: February Pricing (http://www.naturalgasforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=26550.msg295930#msg295930)
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2017, 06:51:29 AM »
[/size][size=0.85em][/size][/size][/size]
[size=0.85em]Quote (http://www.naturalgasforums.com/smf/index.php?action=post;quote=295930;topic=26550.0;last_msg=295958)[/r]
[/b][/font][/size][/size][/size]
  • [size=0.85em][/l]

    CHK-AUBURN 3.17/2.57
    CHK-ROME  3.18/2.24
    CHK-LIBERTY 2.94/2.13
    CHK-Overfield 3.05/1.86
    CHK-BRADFORD REGENCY 3.24/1.44
    CHK-WYOMING REGENCY 3.00/1.35
    CHK-LYCO 1.94/1.25
    Anadarko Petroleum 3.08/2.54
    Cabot Oil & Gas 2.71/2.19
    Chief Oil & Gas 2.39/1.95
    Enerplus Resources (Usa) Corp 2.29/1.75



      Looks like gross/net. Hard numbers.


    Report to moderator (http://www.naturalgasforums.com/smf/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=26550.6;msg=295930)   
    [/color]
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 19, 2018, 11:49:07 PM
The amount of gas  Mcf is what royalties are paid on.  Would agree, some people will overlook that part do to lack of knowledge.

actually, gas is sold by the mmbtu, but whatever.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: duffy on January 20, 2018, 07:52:11 AM



  Are you involved with NARO Duff? That's their job. To hear complaints and find solutions.
Job? the board is all volunteers, the money collected to be a member goes to help fight for better legislation and a voice in Harrisburg. Again you show you have no clue what your talking about, and by the way Mrs Seligman is on the NARO board. As Grit tells you "do the research" and wj says "nitwit"
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 20, 2018, 08:06:53 AM



  Nitwit. That's a new one. Anything else ?
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 20, 2018, 08:18:35 AM



  I got another story about Chesapeake. This one is what set me off. A farmer friend was developed early in the play by CHK. Great wells, lots or acreage. Shalonaire start. The after Kilmer Chesapeake went retroctive with him and he didnt receive a royalty check from them for a year and a half. All the while his wells were producing 10s of million cu ft a day.
 Im sure there are many more in the same boat.
  I don't know how he is making out now but the damage has been done.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: duffy on January 20, 2018, 09:54:16 AM
I have a farmer friend who was also developed early in the play 300 plus acres, wells on his place were 5000 ftrs, IP came in at 36 and 39 million/day choked back to 8/day, wellheads just rumbled till they tweaked them to around 10. First checks were very nice then came Kilmer, they took back money for three months but still got a royalty check (though smaller of course). The point is they STILL got a royalty check!! Basic boiler plate lease too. Pick and chose what story you believe, i believe what i see with my own eyes. And as far as the nitwit thing, just quoteing.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: ghrit on January 20, 2018, 10:18:42 AM
And as far as the nitwit thing, just quoteing.
Accurately, one could say.  Dunno about nit, but microscopic ennyweigh.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 20, 2018, 10:27:06 AM
yes nitwit.

because only a pea brain could deduce that someone who was overpaid for years, and then wasn't paid until the overage was paid back was in any way damaged.

in those situations, the royalty owners had months or years of royalties paid to them in advance. i'll take that deal today, or any day.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 20, 2018, 10:30:19 AM
The amount of gas  Mcf is what royalties are paid on.  Would agree, some people will overlook that part do to lack of knowledge.

actually, gas is sold by the mmbtu, but whatever.

wj
One thousand cubic feet (Mcf) of natural gas equals 1.037 million Btu (MMBtu)
At, https://www.marcellusgas.org they give some good simple mass information of every well in the state for a small annual fee. It is raw data that assumes a lot of things.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 20, 2018, 10:40:56 AM
The amount of gas  Mcf is what royalties are paid on.  Would agree, some people will overlook that part do to lack of knowledge.

actually, gas is sold by the mmbtu, but whatever.

wj
One thousand cubic feet (Mcf) of natural gas equals 1.037 million Btu (MMBtu)
At, https://www.marcellusgas.org they give some good simple mass information of every well in the state for a small annual fee. It is raw data that assumes a lot of things.

that's assuming that the gas is 1037 btu/cu.ft., which is not always the case.

the wells that I am in, range from 1028, to 1036 btu/cu.ft. so my gas is 1.028 to 1.036 mmbtu/mcf.

that's why both the production volume and the btu content are listed on the royalty statement.

gas is not sold by the mcf, we are paid by the mmbtu. that's why the guys down in the wet gas get such nice checks. their gas can be over 1700 btu's/mcf. they'd be getting ripped off if they only got paid by their volume.

Marcellusgas.org is ok for some stuff, but they also get stuff wrong. that's why I said to be very discerning about what you read on the net.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 20, 2018, 11:11:58 AM
here's how it works in a perfect world wax.

https://www.tulsagastech.com/measure.html

1 mcf of methane ch4 contains 1mmbtu. but natural gas has other stuff in it besides methane, so not only wellhead gas, but pipeline and consumer gas can vary as far as energy content.

consumers usually buy their gas by the therm, which contains 100,000 btu's. so they are buying around 100,000 cu.ft., or 1/10 of an mcf...in a perfect world.

but in the real world, the energy content from the wellhead to the burner tip can vary significantly.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 20, 2018, 01:53:54 PM
thanks for the reply wax  I guess the story is beyond my scope  the whole story makes no sense to me I read the second paragraph about 4 times it just makes know sense to me   from who where they getting royalties before chessy drilled & changed everything   the last line 54000 gross  2400 payment sorry don't buy it would have to see the statement a lot of people leased to chessy here in se Bradford co  never seen any statement even remotely close the that amount deduction   thinking there's more to be seen on that statement if it exist       by the way    newbie is 100% correct about Doug   
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 20, 2018, 02:23:05 PM
rat, what you say is true about our chk deductions here in se bradco, but be aware that other areas can be higher.

I've seen $1.20/mcf in Wyoming county, and if macal is to be believed, the area north of Towanda can be even higher.

all of that just underscores the complexity that is not covered in news stories, and will be very difficult to address in court proceedings.

basically, if you've seen one royalty statement, you have no idea what the overall picture is.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 20, 2018, 02:43:56 PM
here's how it works in a perfect world wax.

https://www.tulsagastech.com/measure.html

1 mcf of methane ch4 contains 1mmbtu. but natural gas has other stuff in it besides methane, so not only wellhead gas, but pipeline and consumer gas can vary as far as energy content.

consumers usually buy their gas by the therm, which contains 100,000 btu's. so they are buying around 100,000 cu.ft., or 1/10 of an mcf...in a perfect world.

but in the real world, the energy content from the wellhead to the burner tip can vary significantly.

wj
consumers usually buy their gas by the therm, which contains 100,000 btu's. so they are buying around 100 ,000 cu.ft., or 1/10 of an mcf...in a perfect world.
1cf = 1000btu.       This is a big part of what I did for a living. And I know, you know the answer as well. I have a problem with counting 000000 and must need another pair of glasses from the dollar store.
I will go out on a limb, and state, I have never seen two gas meters, read the same. As a matter of practice, residential meters are changed every 10 years or so. I have had the occasion to have some very favorable meters. Both gas and electric. It always baffled me to say, "computers catch cheats". If a gas or electric bill drops of 90% (no BS) and it goes on for years, that cpu has no common sense. In both cases, I turned myself in. You find out, that years of lean bills comes at a cost. They now do a average, from the year before and want it all now. ??? I know some folks, with wonderful meters, who will not turn them selves in. Is it a ticking bomb or will they get away with it ?
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 20, 2018, 03:05:59 PM
agreed, my mistake.

I got my btu's and cf's mixed up

a therm is 1 ccf or100 cu.ft, or 100,000btu's, but only in theory.

and gas is still sold by the mmbtu, not the mcf.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 20, 2018, 07:17:43 PM
agreed, my mistake.

I got my btu's and cf's mixed up

a therm is 1 ccf or100 cu.ft, or 100,000btu's, but only in theory.

and gas is still sold by the mmbtu, not the mcf.

wj
Now that you installed solar panels, have you seen your meter spin backwards ?  I have Penn Electric, and last year replaced analog meter, with digital. (suppose to eliminate meter reader but not yet)  I was wondering if the digital meters subtracts power put back into grid ?
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 20, 2018, 07:24:26 PM
I AGREE ABOUT DIFERENT AMOUNTS IN DIFFERENT AREAS    BUT 55000 GROSS WITH 2800 AFTER DEDUCTION IS VERY HARD TO BELIEVE UNLESS THERE WAS OTHER CERCUMSTANCES   
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 20, 2018, 07:38:30 PM



  It could easily happen if the deductions were very close but slightly less than sales price leaving pennies for each mcf of his share of production.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 20, 2018, 08:27:40 PM
agreed, my mistake.

I got my btu's and cf's mixed up

a therm is 1 ccf or100 cu.ft, or 100,000btu's, but only in theory.

and gas is still sold by the mmbtu, not the mcf.

wj
Now that you installed solar panels, have you seen your meter spin backwards ?  I have Penn Electric, and last year replaced analog meter, with digital. (suppose to eliminate meter reader but not yet)  I was wondering if the digital meters subtracts power put back into grid ?

I'm not grid tied, just stand alone. panels, batteries and inverters. if I need to, the grid is still there to back my system up though.

yes those meters will go backwards. I have a neighbor with a grid tied wind turbine. sometimes he sells, but mostly he buys. it doesn't pay to oversize your system though, the power you produce to stop the meter offsets retail pricing. once the meter goes backwards though, you're selling at wholesale prices.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 20, 2018, 08:37:27 PM
I AGREE ABOUT DIFERENT AMOUNTS IN DIFFERENT AREAS    BUT 55000 GROSS WITH 2800 AFTER DEDUCTION IS VERY HARD TO BELIEVE UNLESS THERE WAS OTHER CERCUMSTANCES

matt is actually correct this time rat.

we don't know the details, but at $55,000 gross royalties, he either has a large parcel, or multiple wells.

I'd say it's over 200 acres, if he has a 20% royalty on a single well, and the sales price was likely around $1.40/mmbtu, with deductions in the $1.20/mcf range.

just rough guessing though, there's no way to know their exact circumstances.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 20, 2018, 08:51:43 PM
agreed, my mistake.

I got my btu's and cf's mixed up

a therm is 1 ccf or100 cu.ft, or 100,000btu's, but only in theory.

and gas is still sold by the mmbtu, not the mcf.

wj
Now that you installed solar panels, have you seen your meter spin backwards ?  I have Penn Electric, and last year replaced analog meter, with digital. (suppose to eliminate meter reader but not yet)  I was wondering if the digital meters subtracts power put back into grid ?

I'm not grid tied, just stand alone. panels, batteries and inverters. if I need to, the grid is still there to back my system up though.

yes those meters will go backwards. I have a neighbor with a grid tied wind turbine. sometimes he sells, but mostly he buys. it doesn't pay to oversize your system though, the power you produce to stop the meter offsets retail pricing. once the meter goes backwards though, you're selling at wholesale prices.

wj
I see your point "selling at wholesale prices" not worth a bigger system cost. Learn something new every day.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 21, 2018, 10:35:10 AM
jim am I wrong your talking between 15 & 20 % reduction    I believe there talking 90+% reduction
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 21, 2018, 11:04:30 AM
not sure rat, but if you're asking about my royalties, then the percentage depends on the price.

I've had deductions that took 90% of my royalties when prices were low, and I would have had negative royalties when prices were under 60 cents, but my well was shut in during that time.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 21, 2018, 01:00:21 PM
no not yours I was talking about the article that wax posted   I was out in the barn thinking about my post was going to remove it  it when I got in  my thinking may be off on the %
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 21, 2018, 01:33:25 PM
they got about 5% net, so their deductions took around 95%.

I can see that when prices were low. I lost 90%, and my deductions are probably a little lower than theirs.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 21, 2018, 04:17:03 PM
if it was because prices were low shouldn't that be included in article .  article makes it sound like evil gas co.      that's why I take all the anti gas shit with a bit of skepticism 
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 21, 2018, 05:43:28 PM
andy maykuth is a pretty good guy. years ago, ron and I communicated with him now and then about current events, and he seemed like a pretty balanced journalist.

but papers need to sell advertising to stay in business, so they need gripping tales of evil wrongdoing to keep people buying their product. it's just a fact of their existence these days.

I mean, who's gonna buy a paper with a headline like, "the sun came up, it's a beautiful day and trump has it all under control, so everybody relax and have a great day!".

 slaplaugh
   wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 21, 2018, 07:59:53 PM



  Is this true?


    How is that going to help the lady in Terry Township who got a bill for $186,000 on a little over 20 acres?” said Commissioner Daryl Miller.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: ghrit on January 21, 2018, 08:12:52 PM



  Is this true?
Looks like you have another research project.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 21, 2018, 10:25:39 PM
Someone looking to join these folks may get more info by getting the entire article.


Pa. Shale Landowners Want Arbitration Ruling Revisited
By Dan Packel

Law360, Philadelphia (January 5, 2018, 4:36 PM EST) -- More than 600 Marcellus Shale landowners asked a Pennsylvania federal court Thursday to reconsider its refusal to permit "class" arbitration in their gas royalties fight with Chesapeake Energy Corp. and others, arguing they want their individual claims arbitrated together, not as a class.

The landowners said that U.S. District Judge Matthew W. Brann misapprehended the relief that they sought and consequently applied improper recent case law. They emphasized that their goal has always been consolidation of their individual arbitration bids.

“Here, plaintiffs are not suing as...

https://www.law360.com/articles/999130/pa-shale-landowners-want-arbitration-ruling-revisited
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 22, 2018, 10:07:30 AM



  Is this true?
Looks like you have another research project.

inquiring minds wanna know.

how long did that lady avoid paying her taxes anyway? or maybe it was her credit card bill.

 slaplaugh
   wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 22, 2018, 10:30:15 AM
or was she just overpaid at some time    inquiring minds  slaplaugh  want to know
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 22, 2018, 11:14:27 AM



  Sounds like Chesapeake going retroactive on deductions right after Kilmer. I eoulf be curious to know how much they dinged her per mcf.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: JEB on January 22, 2018, 01:48:57 PM
Shin said a few pages back in this thread that the western Bradford county wells were sub-par and WJ said Wyalusing was the glory hole. Let's see what the production say about it.
I took five random well pads from each area and what I was looking for were wells drilled by CHK and each well had to have a production history of at least 2000 days. I used the information listed for the first well on each pad the meet that requirement. I took the first well pad as close to Troy as I could get and randomly took the next four well pads going East. I then took the first well pad by Cargill and then randomly took the next four well pads going West.This is the average of the 5 well pads from each area.

Troy wells average days of production 2286.   Wells averaged 2.795 MCF per day.   Wells averaged last report 1.642 MCF per day.

Wyalusing wells average days of production 2093 days.  Wells averaged 2.727 MCF per day.   Wells averaged last report 1.579 MCF per day.

What will be interesting is to take another look in 5 years. At the present time, I don't see much difference from one area to the other.



Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 22, 2018, 02:51:02 PM
Shin said a few pages back in this thread that the western Bradford county wells were sub-par and WJ said Wyalusing was the glory hole.

you're making stuff up again jeb.

shinobi did say something similar to what you claim, but I believe he was referring to his own area, which is also north of you and troy by a few miles.

and I challenge you to produce the evidence to back up your claim that I said Wyalusing was a "glory hole".

what I have said, is that as you go west from dimock, the quality drops off. if you check your map, you will find that Wyalusing is pretty far west of dimock.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 22, 2018, 02:53:11 PM



  Sounds like Chesapeake going retroactive on deductions right after Kilmer. I eoulf be curious to know how much they dinged her per mcf.

we are too.

what have you found out? is it true?

because guessing games only create confusion.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 22, 2018, 03:46:15 PM
I googled it got nothing     except millers quote    I think wasn't going to pay
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 22, 2018, 03:50:02 PM



   Maybe fake news ? Everybody is doing it. ???
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: macal on January 22, 2018, 04:27:36 PM



  It's what happened to my friend after Kilmer. No checks for about 18 months. Paying for previous post production costs.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 22, 2018, 04:45:57 PM
It's what happened to my friend after Kilmer. No checks for about 18 months. Paying for previous post production costs.

well now we're getting somewhere.

your "friend" got an 18 month advance on his royalties! cool.

where else can you get that kinda deal? and they didn't charge any interest...right?

so what exactly is the point that you're trying to make?

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 22, 2018, 04:47:52 PM
I googled it got nothing     except millers quote    I think wasn't going to pay

rat, you can just walk up the hill and ask him.

ask him if the lady had to pay this "bill", or if she got an advance also.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: duffy on January 22, 2018, 05:57:30 PM
Shin said a few pages back in this thread that the western Bradford county wells were sub-par and WJ said Wyalusing was the glory hole. Let's see what the production say about it.
I took five random well pads from each area and what I was looking for were wells drilled by CHK and each well had to have a production history of at least 2000 days. I used the information listed for the first well on each pad the meet that requirement. I took the first well pad as close to Troy as I could get and randomly took the next four well pads going East. I then took the first well pad by Cargill and then randomly took the next four well pads going West.This is the average of the 5 well pads from each area.

Troy wells average days of production 2286.   Wells averaged 2.795 MCF per day.   Wells averaged last report 1.642 MCF per day.

Wyalusing wells average days of production 2093 days.  Wells averaged 2.727 MCF per day.   Wells averaged last report 1.579 MCF per day.

What will be interesting is to take another look in 5 years. At the present time, I don't see much difference from one area to the other.
Did you also factor in length of lateral bore or if any were "toe" fracked to hold and satisfy lease terms or how many companies had an interest in each well and reported production on sales? Pretty broad statement without factoring in all the other variables involved, JMO
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 22, 2018, 06:07:26 PM
duff, seriously? you're goin' way over his head now.

tell ya what I am curious to know though...how many wells are being permitted over that way for the next round of drilling this year?

I know you have one, and we do too, but where's the rest of 'em gonna be drilled?

and something else too. where's the Utica's gonna be? mine was cored in the Utica, but I haven't seen the formation for the new well yet.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: riverrat on January 22, 2018, 06:20:04 PM
walk uphill are you crazy  maybe drive up with utv   
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: duffy on January 22, 2018, 07:53:20 PM
Yea i forgot shutin days, flowback output of things like salt, Ip, EUR etc. Was Hump correct with his "hump" in that area, ya know how the marcellus got shallower and lost it's gas in place and total organic content? Be interesting when chk drills that 14k lateral and zipper fracs those half as long stages, if 250 ftrs came in at 39 million ip what 125 footers will produce and when will the "incline" will settle out and level off, Interesting
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 22, 2018, 08:03:32 PM
hump's pimple, or whatever he called it, is just southeast of jeb's place. as far as I know, leases are not being offered there.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 22, 2018, 08:46:31 PM
It's what happened to my friend after Kilmer. No checks for about 18 months. Paying for previous post production costs.

well now we're getting somewhere.

your "friend" got an 18 month advance on his royalties! cool.

where else can you get that kinda deal? and they didn't charge any interest...right?

so what exactly is the point that you're trying to make?

wj
your "friend" got an 18 month advance on his royalties! cool.
Nah ! It was paid because that is what the lease said.
Consider a opposite ruling in the Kilmer case. We now know, how it turned out.
But had it been the other way, would CHK, SWN, and maybe Cabot be bankrupt ? I think not, after all they signed the lease and paid the royalties. They have a good outcome, in most of their court cases, and still do. Based on what I read, most states allow deductions unless you managed a airtight lease. I"ll agree CHK had a better idea they would win than Trump. Looks like any lease that pays 1/8 or higher royalties is valid, regardless of the deductions. Peroid
Anyway, I wish CHK would have lost that case.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 22, 2018, 10:34:14 PM
2 things wax.

1: the leases say that they can take deductions. the ruling was that it was allowable under the law.

2:wish in one hand, crap in the other, and see which one fills up faster.

wj

Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 22, 2018, 11:11:55 PM
2 things wax.

1: the leases say that they can take deductions. the ruling was that it was allowable under the law.

2:wish in one hand, crap in the other, and see which one fills up faster.

wj
I wished the crap, they would of lost that case. ;)
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: duffy on January 23, 2018, 06:21:47 AM
I misspoke they won't be zipper fracks, should have said Rambo frack
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: JEB on January 23, 2018, 07:06:25 AM
Shin said a few pages back in this thread that the western Bradford county wells were sub-par and WJ said Wyalusing was the glory hole. Let's see what the production say about it.
I took five random well pads from each area and what I was looking for were wells drilled by CHK and each well had to have a production history of at least 2000 days. I used the information listed for the first well on each pad the meet that requirement. I took the first well pad as close to Troy as I could get and randomly took the next four well pads going East. I then took the first well pad by Cargill and then randomly took the next four well pads going West.This is the average of the 5 well pads from each area.

Troy wells average days of production 2286.   Wells averaged 2.795 MCF per day.   Wells averaged last report 1.642 MCF per day.

Wyalusing wells average days of production 2093 days.  Wells averaged 2.727 MCF per day.   Wells averaged last report 1.579 MCF per day.

What will be interesting is to take another look in 5 years. At the present time, I don't see much difference from one area to the other.
Did you also factor in length of lateral bore or if any were "toe" fracked to hold and satisfy lease terms or how many companies had an interest in each well and reported production on sales? Pretty broad statement without factoring in all the other variables involved, JMO

I told you exactly what I did and the wells were all drilled by CHK in the same time frame. So they should all have the same partners reporting production results. And as far as a humps pimple goes that must be a very small pimple because take a look at the wells just over the hill from Granville in Leroy.
Those wells are as good as the wells in the New Albany area.

Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: JEB on January 23, 2018, 09:31:12 AM
duff, seriously? you're goin' way over his head now.

tell ya what I am curious to know though...how many wells are being permitted over that way for the next round of drilling this year?

I know you have one, and we do too, but where's the rest of 'em gonna be drilled?

and something else too. where's the Utica's gonna be? mine was cored in the Utica, but I haven't seen the formation for the new well yet.

wj

Next round of drilling? What are you talking about? They never quit drilling around the Troy area. The only one not drilling is CHK and that is because they told me they had to put in more pipelines. CHK told me that all of the wells on the north side of Rt 6 from Troy to Burlington were all choked back because of lack of pipeline capacity. All of these wells are on a 12-inch pipeline. You are wrong about lease offers not being offered in the Granville area.
CHK will take anyone not leased but they are offering only a 12.5 royalty at this time.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 23, 2018, 09:49:10 AM
I told you exactly what I did and the wells were all drilled by CHK in the same time frame. So they should all have the same partners reporting production results.

bad assumption jeb.

it's way more complicated than that. in fact some mineral owners in the same chk units have different lesses paying them on different percentages of production than their neighbors.

generalizations and averages are interesting for comparisons, but they don't always tell the whole story.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: JEB on January 23, 2018, 10:55:54 AM
I told you exactly what I did and the wells were all drilled by CHK in the same time frame. So they should all have the same partners reporting production results.

bad assumption jeb.

it's way more complicated than that. in fact some mineral owners in the same chk units have different lesses paying them on different percentages of production than their neighbors.

generalizations and averages are interesting for comparisons, but they don't always tell the whole story.

wj

Things only get complicated most of the time if you make them that way. And average comparisons do put you in the ballpark. The only way production figures would be wrong is if those reporting them lied. Which I wouldn't put past them.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 23, 2018, 11:11:14 AM
Things only get complicated most of the time if you make them that way.

I agree....most of the time.

but we didn't make this complicated, chk and partners did.

we can of course think of this business in simplistic terms, and go along our merry way in life. and why not? we're all millionaires now, and we didn't have to invest a penny to achieve that level. so it's all good...right?

kinda makes me wonder though...if it's all so simple to you, why did you need to do the research to disprove something that was never said.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 23, 2018, 12:03:42 PM
Next round of drilling? What are you talking about? They never quit drilling around the Troy area. The only one not drilling is CHK and that is because they told me they had to put in more pipelines.

yes jeb, and chk is the company we were talking about.

I guess I need to be more specific in future so that you can keep up.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: JEB on January 23, 2018, 12:27:46 PM
Things only get complicated most of the time if you make them that way.

I agree....most of the time.

but we didn't make this complicated, chk and partners did.

we can of course think of this business in simplistic terms, and go along our merry way in life. and why not? we're all millionaires now, and we didn't have to invest a penny to achieve that level. so it's all good...right?

kinda makes me wonder though...if it's all so simple to you, why did you need to do the research to disprove something that was never said.

wj

Life has always been very good for me and it was just as good before gas royalties were ever being paid. The only reason that I told a look at the production figures was my own curiosity. I guess I just wanted to see for myself if one area of Bradford County was really that much better than another. I look at gas production figures all of the time and one thing I do see is you can have a huge well and move three miles and the wells are plugged. If you do decide to invest your money don't try to invest it in a complicated manner, because you will lose it. GUARANTEED! I don't see anything complicated about the gas business, it is no different than any other business other than some of the players are more crooked. You have a certain amount of that no matter what business you are in. Maybe this is just your first taste of business I don't know. But, yes you have to keep on top of any business that you are in or you will lose your shirt. Keep up the good work, your doing a good job keeping us informed.
 
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 23, 2018, 12:43:31 PM
I'm in my lazy time of year now.

just feeding the fire, trading stocks and playing solitaire.

why not have a little fun with old friends now and then too...

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 23, 2018, 05:21:54 PM
I'm in my lazy time of year now.

just feeding the fire, trading stocks and playing solitaire.

why not have a little fun with old friends now and then too...

wj
trading stocks,
"day trader are you? "
My picks, can be compared grass growing, and than CUT.
Than the process starts over again. Never use to be like that, before day trading.
JEB, sounds like he is a very educated trader,  I am a gambler.
I bought some "wacky weed stocks" based on wacky article ,and they move like ping pong balls. I was hoping for more of a rocket launch into space.
I used to be, a buy and hold person. Even took possession of the stock certificates. Dare not do that today. 1 in 2 people own, stocks now. Use to be higher before the crash. I thought ownership would be at a all time high with banks paying next to nothing in interest. Good luck to all the, stock pickers on the forum.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: kenneth12 on January 23, 2018, 05:37:18 PM
I'm in my lazy time of year now.

just feeding the fire, trading stocks and playing solitaire.

why not have a little fun with old friends now and then too...

wj
trading stocks,
"day trader are you? "
My picks, can be compared grass growing, and than CUT.
Than the process starts over again. Never use to be like that, before day trading.
JEB, sounds like he is a very educated trader,  I am a gambler.
I bought some "wacky weed stocks" based on wacky article ,and they move like ping pong balls. I was hoping for more of a rocket launch into space.
I used to be, a buy and hold person. Even took possession of the stock certificates. Dare not do that today. 1 in 2 people own, stocks now. Use to be higher before the crash. I thought ownership would be at a all time high with banks paying next to nothing in interest. Good luck to all the, stock pickers on the forum.
Wax, I suspect that wj failed to add "ice fishing in front of his wood stove" to his winter activities list.  Maybe you should spit the worm out before he hooks you (again)??   headpat
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 23, 2018, 05:57:20 PM
I'm in my lazy time of year now.

just feeding the fire, trading stocks and playing solitaire.

why not have a little fun with old friends now and then too...

wj
trading stocks,
"day trader are you? "
My picks, can be compared grass growing, and than CUT.
Than the process starts over again. Never use to be like that, before day trading.
JEB, sounds like he is a very educated trader,  I am a gambler.
I bought some "wacky weed stocks" based on wacky article ,and they move like ping pong balls. I was hoping for more of a rocket launch into space.
I used to be, a buy and hold person. Even took possession of the stock certificates. Dare not do that today. 1 in 2 people own, stocks now. Use to be higher before the crash. I thought ownership would be at a all time high with banks paying next to nothing in interest. Good luck to all the, stock pickers on the forum.
Wax, I suspect that wj failed to add "ice fishing in front of his wood stove" to his winter activities list.  Maybe you should spit the worm out before he hooks you (again)??   headpat
why not have a little fun with old friends now and then too... ?
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: duffy on January 23, 2018, 06:02:16 PM
Shin said a few pages back in this thread that the western Bradford county wells were sub-par and WJ said Wyalusing was the glory hole. Let's see what the production say about it.
I took five random well pads from each area and what I was looking for were wells drilled by CHK and each well had to have a production history of at least 2000 days. I used the information listed for the first well on each pad the meet that requirement. I took the first well pad as close to Troy as I could get and randomly took the next four well pads going East. I then took the first well pad by Cargill and then randomly took the next four well pads going West.This is the average of the 5 well pads from each area.

Troy wells average days of production 2286.   Wells averaged 2.795 MCF per day.   Wells averaged last report 1.642 MCF per day.

Wyalusing wells average days of production 2093 days.  Wells averaged 2.727 MCF per day.   Wells averaged last report 1.579 MCF per day.

What will be interesting is to take another look in 5 years. At the present time, I don't see much difference from one area to the other.
Did you also factor in length of lateral bore or if any were "toe" fracked to hold and satisfy lease terms or how many companies had an interest in each well and reported production on sales? Pretty broad statement without factoring in all the other variables involved, JMO

I told you exactly what I did and the wells were all drilled by CHK in the same time frame. So they should all have the same partners reporting production results. And as far as a humps pimple goes that must be a very small pimple because take a look at the wells just over the hill from Granville in Leroy.
Those wells are as good as the wells in the New Albany area.
Well we can agree to disagree and time will tell, i just pointed out variables that are in the equation you may have left out, take it any way you want.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 23, 2018, 06:40:24 PM
trading stocks,
"day trader are you? "
My picks, can be compared grass growing, and than CUT.
Than the process starts over again. Never use to be like that, before day trading.

we have a small group who text together, gathering data and sharing it throughout the trading session. some were investors, who got hosed too many times by the same up and down action that you described.

that roller coaster action is what I trade. I stay with small and mid cap energy stocks, which have the volatility I need to score. among my favorites, are swn, sn and mcf. I used to trade chk, and did very well with them until investors bailed on them.

if you look back on the swn chart, you can easily see where the dips are that pay off if you catch them. in this latest dip for swn for example, I bought it on the way down at $5.60, $5.40, and $5.20. i'da bought it again if it went to $5 but it didn't go that low. I buy 1000 shares each time, so when I sell later this week, I should gross about $1200. I only do it for fun. the stock prices are being manipulated by short sellers and day traders, and so I just ride the roller coaster along with them.

sn does almost the same as swn, but the timing is different. mcf has smaller swings so I just day trade that one usually.

there's nothing like sitting in your easy chair in your jammies and slippers, sipping coffee as you watch for opportunities to earn the money for new tarps.

no ken, I'm not gonna hook him this time. that's how I really spend my winter days. and ummm, the woodstove is outside, so I ain't sittin' by it while I trade.

 slaplaugh
   wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: kenneth12 on January 23, 2018, 08:04:41 PM
no ken, I'm not gonna hook him this time. that's how I really spend my winter days. and ummm, the woodstove is outside, so I ain't sittin' by it while I trade.
 slaplaugh
   wj
Awww handclap!!!! You freely provide a little AGW for nature's furry little creatures to gather 'round  :). 
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: Wax on January 23, 2018, 08:17:19 PM
trading stocks,
"day trader are you? "
My picks, can be compared grass growing, and than CUT.
Than the process starts over again. Never use to be like that, before day trading.

we have a small group who text together, gathering data and sharing it throughout the trading session. some were investors, who got hosed too many times by the same up and down action that you described.

that roller coaster action is what I trade. I stay with small and mid cap energy stocks, which have the volatility I need to score. among my favorites, are swn, sn and mcf. I used to trade chk, and did very well with them until investors bailed on them.

if you look back on the swn chart, you can easily see where the dips are that pay off if you catch them. in this latest dip for swn for example, I bought it on the way down at $5.60, $5.40, and $5.20. i'da bought it again if it went to $5 but it didn't go that low. I buy 1000 shares each time, so when I sell later this week, I should gross about $1200. I only do it for fun. the stock prices are being manipulated by short sellers and day traders, and so I just ride the roller coaster along with them.

sn does almost the same as swn, but the timing is different. mcf has smaller swings so I just day trade that one usually.

there's nothing like sitting in your easy chair in your jammies and slippers, sipping coffee as you watch for opportunities to earn the money for new tarps.

no ken, I'm not gonna hook him this time. that's how I really spend my winter days. and ummm, the woodstove is outside, so I ain't sittin' by it while I trade.

 slaplaugh
   wj
Yep ! those charts do tell a good story. You can look back 15 years and see the roller coaster. Its by far harder to tell when to sell, than to buy. I like ones that pay a high dividend in case I missed the sell and the bottom falls out. Than your in it for a lot longer than expected. Two like that I  just missed selling FTR, CTL. I think some good money can be made on COG, but its not for a short hold.  Pretty soon I"ll be fishing, minus the ice.
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: aubrey on January 23, 2018, 09:28:51 PM
Yep ! those charts do tell a good story. You can look back 15 years and see the roller coaster. Its by far harder to tell when to sell, than to buy. I like ones that pay a high dividend in case I missed the sell and the bottom falls out. Than your in it for a lot longer than expected. Two like that I  just missed selling FTR, CTL. I think some good money can be made on COG, but its not for a short hold.  Pretty soon I"ll be fishing, minus the ice.

I buy on a 20-30 point drop in a single day. if it falls again, I back it up with another buy at the same drop, and so on. if the first buy gets a 12 point bounce, I sell for a hundred. I don't get greedy, and I don't get burnt. you can't time the market, but you can fairly well count on a company like swn to come back at some point. the longest I've had to hold it was a little over 2 weeks, and the longer I have to hold it, the bigger the take.

like I said, it's just for fun. the money doesn't compare to mailbox money, but it keeps me outta trouble while the ground is covered with snow.

one of our group took a shot at ftr a while back, and lost a couple grand for his trouble. I told him I wasn't interested, because the company sucks. I stick with small and mid cap energy stocks. they're beat down so hard at this point that I don't figure they're going much lower.

wj
Title: Re: It’s “Stupid Is As Stupid Does” on Northeast Gas Prices
Post by: JEB on January 24, 2018, 09:04:18 AM
Shin said a few pages back in this thread that the western Bradford county wells were sub-par and WJ said Wyalusing was the glory hole. Let's see what the production say about it.
I took five random well pads from each area and what I was looking for were wells drilled by CHK and each well had to have a production history of at least 2000 days. I used the information listed for the first well on each pad the meet that requirement. I took the first well pad as close to Troy as I could get and randomly took the next four well pads going East. I then took the first well pad by Cargill and then randomly took the next four well pads going West.This is the average of the 5 well pads from each area.

Troy wells average days of production 2286.   Wells averaged 2.795 MCF per day.   Wells averaged last report 1.642 MCF per day.

Wyalusing wells average days of production 2093 days.  Wells averaged 2.727 MCF per day.   Wells averaged last report 1.579 MCF per day.

What will be interesting is to take another look in 5 years. At the present time, I don't see much difference from one area to the other.
Did you also factor in length of lateral bore or if any were "toe" fracked to hold and satisfy lease terms or how many companies had an interest in each well and reported production on sales? Pretty broad statement without factoring in all the other variables involved, JMO

I told you exactly what I did and the wells were all drilled by CHK in the same time frame. So they should all have the same partners reporting production results. And as far as a humps pimple goes that must be a very small pimple because take a look at the wells just over the hill from Granville in Leroy.
Those wells are as good as the wells in the New Albany area.
Well we can agree to disagree and time will tell, i just pointed out variables that are in the equation you may have left out, take it any way you want.

What I think is that the wells in both areas are holding up very well. Those 10 wells that I looked at have been in production for about six years and to still be producing that good is pretty remarkable. Some geologist thought when the Marcellus drilling first started the wells would have an average lifespan of about 8 years. As far as which area has the best wells or will have I really don't care. I'm just glad I'm not in some areas where the wells are very low producing and are being plugged. The only complaint that I have is the deduction issue and if they don't exceed 25% of my check I'm happy with that.

I got to thinking about what those geologists said and they were somewhat right about that because in some areas the wells didn't even make it 8 years before they went dry or became very low producers.