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Natural Gas/Oil Government Laws & Regulations => Pennsylvania => Topic started by: macal on April 08, 2018, 11:05:47 AM

Title: Severance Tax
Post by: macal on April 08, 2018, 11:05:47 AM

  There it is. The Pa Senate has passed a Severance Tax bill. The House has not addresed it.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: admin on April 08, 2018, 12:09:48 PM
I added ONLY IF IMPACT FEE IS RESCINDED
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: shinobi on April 08, 2018, 03:05:41 PM
Only pricks or gadflies post stuff with no supporting evidence.  There is nothing out there to support macal's OP.  And if there is I challenge him to post a link.  But there is nothing.  I have looked

Stipulated:

Everyone already knows the PA Senate passed a severance tax LAST YEAR!!  That is hardly news in April of 2018!!

Searching only for recent stuff, I did locate this (somewhat) recent article:

https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2018/03/22/report-severance-tax-proposal-could-cost-mineral-owners-millions/ (https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2018/03/22/report-severance-tax-proposal-could-cost-mineral-owners-millions/)

Here is a lift from that piece:

"Wolf spokesman J.J. Abbott disputed the analysis, noting the severance tax proposal the administration has circulated to the Legislature contains language explicitly prohibiting gas companies from deducting the severance tax from royalty payments.

In response, IFO director Matthew Knittel noted the language Abbott is citing is not publicly available. He said he relied on information contained in the executive budget, which was minimal.

“There’s nothing in the executive budget about how those [costs] would be handled,” said Knittel. “Every state allows that tax to be passed back to landowners.”
"

The Wolf falsehoods (they are bald-faced lies but it is Sunday) documented there are also already well understood as such by regular posters here.  Wolf thinks he can make landowners believe he has the power to change the terms of existing leases.  Obama, after all, told Americans they would save money with Obamacare and be able to keep their doctor and health plan.  Outrageous lies of this nature are easy for Democrats to promulgate, and extremely commonplace.  Wolf has a million of 'em.

One final thought on landowners and a PA severance tax:

While Wolf cannot protect us from the tax, there is one measure (only) he could propose to take the sting away.  He could allow PA landowners to deduct any severance tax they pay, dollar for dollar, from their PIT payment each year.

You might wonder why Wolf does not put forward such a proposal as that, and instead insists on his non-existent ability to alter leases.  It's an easy answer:

Wolf knows law reducing landowners' PIT obligation by the amount of any severance tax, if enacted, would work and would not be challenged in court.  That is NOT what Wolf wants.  As a Democrat, just as was the case with Obama, Wolf wants to promise a good outcome for us while knowing full well it's simply not gonna happen.  He figures if enough landowners believe his lies that he will get his severance tax.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: macal on April 09, 2018, 08:08:06 AM
Only pricks or gadflies post stuff with no supporting evidence.  There is nothing out there to support macal's OP.  And if there is I challenge him to post a link.  But there is nothing.  I have looked

Stipulated:

Everyone already knows the PA Senate passed a severance tax LAST YEAR!!  That is hardly news in April of 2018!!

Searching only for recent stuff, I did locate this (somewhat) recent article:

https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2018/03/22/report-severance-tax-proposal-could-cost-mineral-owners-millions/ (https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2018/03/22/report-severance-tax-proposal-could-cost-mineral-owners-millions/)

Here is a lift from that piece:

"Wolf spokesman J.J. Abbott disputed the analysis, noting the severance tax proposal the administration has circulated to the Legislature contains language explicitly prohibiting gas companies from deducting the severance tax from royalty payments.

In response, IFO director Matthew Knittel noted the language Abbott is citing is not publicly available. He said he relied on information contained in the executive budget, which was minimal.

“There’s nothing in the executive budget about how those [costs] would be handled,” said Knittel. “Every state allows that tax to be passed back to landowners.”
"

The Wolf falsehoods (they are bald-faced lies but it is Sunday) documented there are also already well understood as such by regular posters here.  Wolf thinks he can make landowners believe he has the power to change the terms of existing leases.  Obama, after all, told Americans they would save money with Obamacare and be able to keep their doctor and health plan.  Outrageous lies of this nature are easy for Democrats to promulgate, and extremely commonplace.  Wolf has a million of 'em.

One final thought on landowners and a PA severance tax:

While Wolf cannot protect us from the tax, there is one measure (only) he could propose to take the sting away.  He could allow PA landowners to deduct any severance tax they pay, dollar for dollar, from their PIT payment each year.

You might wonder why Wolf does not put forward such a proposal as that, and instead insists on his non-existent ability to alter leases.  It's an easy answer:

Wolf knows law reducing landowners' PIT obligation by the amount of any severance tax, if enacted, would work and would not be challenged in court.  That is NOT what Wolf wants.  As a Democrat, just as was the case with Obama, Wolf wants to promise a good outcome for us while knowing full well it's simply not gonna happen.  He figures if enough landowners believe his lies that he will get his severance tax.

   So you don't think your Spanish company should pony up to the state like they do everywhere else in this country.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: ghrit on April 09, 2018, 08:16:08 AM

   So you don't think your Spanish company should pony up to the state like they do everywhere else in this country.
The price of bacon inevitably goes up.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: shinobi on April 09, 2018, 01:50:56 PM
   So you don't think your Spanish company should pony up to the state like they do everywhere else in this country.

I do not think PA landowners should pay severance tax.  And I do not think Wolf is even close to being honest with Pennsylvanians regarding this or on most other matters.  Like despicable Democrats everywhere, the guy is a bald-faced liar.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: macal on April 09, 2018, 02:12:27 PM

  What has he lied about?
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: ghrit on April 09, 2018, 02:49:01 PM

  What has he lied about?
What truths has he told?
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: riverrat on April 09, 2018, 03:34:28 PM

  What has he lied about?
  favorite  far left ploy     omission is a form of lying    tho you libs don't believe it is           
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: shinobi on April 09, 2018, 04:05:03 PM

  What has he lied about?

What has he not lied about?

It was all in that article which I, unlike you, actually posted up thread.  I'm confident you did not read the article.  This is because liberals ignore all information which does not agree with their insane preconceived notions.  Your buddy Wolf is out to get us landowners big time.  You do not care.  And you never will care.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: macal on April 09, 2018, 06:43:07 PM

  I've read direct quotes from Wolf saying he would exempt landowners.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: riverrat on April 09, 2018, 07:56:02 PM

  I've read direct quotes from Wolf saying he would exempt landowners.
& keep your doctor & health plan & cost will go down avg 2000    lying libs
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: macal on April 09, 2018, 09:31:05 PM
  I read the article in my search to find the quotes of Wolf plan to exempt landowners. Wolf doesn't write the legislation. Your Republican buddies do.
 Yaw and Turzai control the whole deal. Since the Senate passed a bill maybe you could ring up Yaw and ask him about it.

  By the way Pruitt is almost and Donald is probably not far behind.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: shinobi on April 09, 2018, 09:35:46 PM

  I've read direct quotes from Wolf saying he would exempt landowners.

This is even more moronic than your usual posts.  Try to get through your thick liberal head the following:

Wolf does not have the POWER to exempt landowners.

For that matter, neither does the PA legislature.

And if that's not clear enough for you:

Wolf and the PA legislature acting in concert, together, do not have the power to exempt landowners!

The reason:

Neither Wolf, nor the PA legislature, is empowered to change pre-existing leases.

Period

I did suggest up thread a way Wolf might be able to absolve landowners of severance tax.  You obviously did not read what I wrote.  I do not expect you will now go back and read it.  Suffice it to say Wolf has NEVER discussed that method of protecting landowners;  and he never will.

Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: macal on April 09, 2018, 09:51:55 PM

  I suggested that same solution more than a year ago. Its all there in black print. Check it. Yaw and Turzai will bob and weave. But things can change.
 
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: macal on April 10, 2018, 06:56:02 AM

  There is another simple solution to exempt landowners from the tax. Let the companies deduct the royalty owner share of the gas produced before calculating the tax.
 Example. Company produces and sells 60bcf in one month. They get $2 for the gas. They subtract the landowner share of gas. Say 13%.
  Now if the state demands the company pay the landowners share of the tax there would be a serious contractual legal problem.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: shinobi on April 10, 2018, 09:05:16 AM

  I suggested that same solution more than a year ago. Its all there in black print. Check it. Yaw and Turzai will bob and weave. But things can change.
 

Acknowledged

I think I DO recall your having made that suggestion, macal.

But the larger point is that Wolf will never agree to any form of severance tax which, as a practical matter, exempts us landowners.  He might agree to something which will be challenged in court, whereafter we lose and Wolf goes "so sorry but not my fault".

PA landowners are most assuredly NOT part of Wolf's constituency.  He is for the city people and some suburban people.  Wolf does not give a damn what happens to us.  If he can steal our money and redistribute it to the cities he is having a good day.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: duffy on April 10, 2018, 06:29:53 PM
Yep.... lets just modify an already signed lease, take that to court and see where it ends up, oh yea just taking more landowner money with something that will never fly, kinda like royalty ripoff
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: macal on April 11, 2018, 07:57:13 AM

  True Duff, but there are ways to exempt landowners. I don't expect the companies to pay the tax on the royalty owners gas. The state would have to let them deduct the royalty share of the gas and then pay the tax only on their share .
 
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: shinobi on April 11, 2018, 08:18:49 AM

  True Duff, but there are ways to exempt landowners. I don't expect the companies to pay the tax on the royalty owners gas. The state would have to let them deduct the royalty share of the gas and then pay the tax only on their share .

No disagreement with that, at least not quickly.  But it misses the point:

Point is, while there might be several legal ways for Wolf to protect landowners from his severance tax, he has not announced support for any of those approaches.  Instead he is saying the new law should, in effect, seek to overturn leases.  Wolf promotes that approach knowing it never will fly.  Obama used the same sort of ruse when he LOUDLY proclaimed people would be able to keep their doctors and plans.  Obama knew that was a lie.  Wolf also knows he is lying, but he does not care so long as enough people support him to where he gets his severance tax passed into law.

Once a PA severance tax goes into effect, it will remain in effect long after we ALL are dead, including Wolf.  But he will die with a smile on his ugly face knowing he was successful in screwing over landowners and redistributing our money to the city people who support him.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: Wax on April 11, 2018, 06:26:10 PM
We all know it would never involve public sentiment ? And if it did , Royalty Owners are enormously outnumbered. It would be entirely left up to the state legislature. The only reason the severance tax has not been passed, is the millions industry lobbyist have spent heading the tax off. If only landowners paid it, it would have been law. from day one.   
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: macal on April 12, 2018, 06:41:34 AM

  Wax, I think you hit the nail on the head. These companies came into Pennsylvania with their lobbyists and all kind of experience doing business in all these different states. Pennsylvania was basically clueless on how to handle this wave of drilling. The lobbyists did what they do. They grease the politicians.

    I think we are going to see a pretty good decline in the impact fees as these laterals go through multiple units and stretch well over 10,000 feet.
  The impact fee collects on each well. Wells used to be 5 or 6 thousand feet. Basically they are double that and cuts into revenue because less wells will be needed to drain the gas.

   We will see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Severance Tax
Post by: ghrit on February 12, 2019, 12:42:15 PM
Here's what happens with severance taxes.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/kentucky-sheriff-suspends-law-enforcement-over-lack-of-funding-folks-lock-your-doors
Once dot gov gets it in place, it becomes dependent.  Impact fees, on the other hand, peter out as the need drops.