Hello Guest
Landowner Rights Denied By Moratorium      NY: 10 Years, 2 Months | DRBC: 9 Years, 5 Months
YOUR SUPPORT KEEPS US OPEN       
       More Information

M.I.T releases final report: "The Future of Natural Gas"

  • 24 Replies
  • 11774 Views
*

Rockdale

  • 6140
Re: M.I.T releases final report: "The Future of Natural Gas"
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2011, 01:52:34 PM »
The comments following the NY Times article are frightening. My favorite comment is this one "...We need a 110% reduction in CO2 production now..." I didn't see a single correction or giggle at this gaff.
>>> Ruby, reading those comments that accompanied the article, I see that the same person who wants a 110% reduction in CO2 also states that we have 2 billion people who are surplus among the earth's population.  Presumably they will all have to be eliminated in some fashion.  Is Soylent Green on the future menu?

*

A.Driller

Re: M.I.T releases final report: "The Future of Natural Gas"
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2011, 01:56:39 PM »
The comments following the NY Times article are frightening. My favorite comment is this one "...We need a 110% reduction in CO2 production now..." I didn't see a single correction or giggle at this gaff.
>>> Ruby, reading those comments that accompanied the article, I see that the same person who wants a 110% reduction in CO2 also states that we have 2 billion people who are surplus among the earth's population.  Presumably they will all have to be eliminated in some fashion.  Is Soylent Green on the future menu?
  Saw that comment too, Rock,
   Id guess he's asking for a study to be done by the Kevorkian Institute!  ;D
                                                                                                       AD

*

heisoktoday

Re: M.I.T releases final report: "The Future of Natural Gas"
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2011, 02:38:10 PM »
" natural gas is in a strong competitive position unless competing technologies are much less expensive  than we now anticipate. " This is even with a carbon tax. :)  Unless we, through our policies, make the competing Nuclear, and "renewable sources" much cheaper, then Natural Gas is our fuel of the future. If their analysis is correct, then nuclear subsidies are the biggest risk.

" As noted earlier, a set of alternative cost assumptions was explored for low-carbon
technologies in the electricity sector, including less costly CCS, nuclear and renewables
(Table 3.1). Of these, the biggest impact on gas use in electricity results from low-cost
nuclear generation. Focusing on 2050, when the effects of alternative assumptions
are the largest, a low-cost nuclear assumption reduces annual gas use in the electric sector by nearly 7 Tcf. Economy-wide gas use falls by only about 5 Tcf, however, because the resulting lower demand for gas in electricity leads to a lower price and more use in other sectors of the economy. "

" Many other combinations of technological uncertainties could be explored. For example,
a breakthrough in large-scale electric storage would improve the competitiveness of intermittent sources. A major insight to be drawn from these few model experiments, however, is that, under a policy based on emissions pricing to mitigate greenhouse gas emissions, natural gas is in a strong competitive position unless competing technologies are much less expensive  than we now anticipate.  "

(from page number 60)

*

Kilgour Farms

Re: M.I.T releases final report: "The Future of Natural Gas"
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2011, 08:01:09 AM »
I haven't seen any of the major news sources touting the MIT study. The only places I find info on it are in gas industry trade publications and a couple of pro gas web sites.

I guess these news organizations don't like the truth, it doesn't sell papers.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 08:02:44 AM by Kilgour Farms * »

*

matbay4

  • 1026
Re: M.I.T releases final report: "The Future of Natural Gas"
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2011, 09:43:43 AM »
I agree. If Cornell or Duke does a study (however flawed) that attacks the NG industry it's all over facebook the next morning and of course great credence is given based on the university name. MIT is a learning institution worthy of such attention and yet because the study doesn't bash NG it goes largely unnoticed. That alone shows the media bias.


*

Mich-Pioneer

Re: M.I.T releases final report: "The Future of Natural Gas"
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2011, 11:57:22 PM »
Since ya'll really think MIT is the cat's meow, hopefully you'll read this too:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/roulette-0519.html

The hard-to-read graphic in the MIT press release above is enlarged and described here:
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2009/05/20/204131/mit-doubles-global-warming-projections-2/

But back to this pro-gas study ya'll are cheering for.... how many actually read the report instead of reading something about it?  Then you must have noticed that they're calling for:

--  Gov't R&D for gas and lower-carbon (including renewables)

-- Eventual end of all subsidies for gas (and everything else too) PLUS a "price" (ie tax) on carbon (from gas)

-- Immediate conversion from high-carbon to gas, but then turning the gas off later on and letting lower carbon take over

See study pg 9 as well as the last few paragraphs on the last page

And if you're so inclined, this is really good:

http://theconversation.edu.au/speaking-science-to-climate-policy-1548





*

heisoktoday

Re: M.I.T releases final report: "The Future of Natural Gas"
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2011, 12:54:42 AM »
MichGuy,

I read the complete report. Based on the comments, others surely did also. Do not underestimate how engaged some of the proponents of natural gas are. Do not assume that we all discount global warming. Perhaps we are realists who are looking for a better way in the near term.

Perhaps the middle is where the answers are for now. I do not believe that the majority of Americans take too kindly to being manipulated by some of the scare tactics used by those who are associated with more aggressive global warming views. 

Sometimes it is the messenger who in fact needs to be shot, so that the message can be communicated effectively.
 


But back to this pro-gas study ya'll are cheering for.... how many actually read the report instead of reading something about it?  Then you must have noticed that they're calling for:

--  Gov't R&D for gas and lower-carbon (including renewables)

-- Eventual end of all subsidies for gas (and everything else too) PLUS a "price" (ie tax) on carbon (from gas)

-- Immediate conversion from high-carbon to gas, but then turning the gas off later on and letting lower carbon take over

See study pg 9 as well as the last few paragraphs on the last page



*

matbay4

  • 1026
Re: M.I.T releases final report: "The Future of Natural Gas"
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2011, 06:24:23 AM »
Oktoday, excellent response. You are absolutely correct that others should not underestimate how engaged and well informed some of the proponents of natural gas are, including many on this forum. I have not read the MIT study and probably won't but then I didn't read the Cornell or Duke studies either. I do seek out a synopsis and a balanced article or two on each. The financial news is sometimes a good place for news about gas without the politics because investors either want in or out based on money, not politics. As for the ideas about carbon, taxes,
and R&D - I don't need MIT to tell us how to run the country, just their opinion of fracing. Sure, some are against the use of natural gas altogether but they represent a small percentage of those opposed to drilling, the majority of which take issue with fracing.

*

claude

  • 158
Re: M.I.T releases final report: "The Future of Natural Gas"
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2012, 12:18:46 AM »
thanks for posting the mit report. of particular interest to me was  chapter 6 that discusses
natural gas storage and the increased
need for high-deliverability gas storage to match the
growth in gas-fired power generation associated with
fuel.
also, how the gas companies make millions using gas storge as a hedge against price fluctuation.
my comment: while paying private landowners pennies per year for billions of cubic feet of
storage.
this practice of ripping off private landowners has to stop!!
The Federal Government, MS state government, FERC, Courts, and gas and pipeline companies have stolen my underground caverns.