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Author Topic: How many acres in a unit?  (Read 647 times)

Hill Billy

  • Posts: 5
How many acres in a unit?
« on: December 07, 2017, 05:16:09 AM »
I'm new to this so please forgive me for asking a question that I maybe should be asking some other place.  I have done many searches and made phone calls to Inflection Energy but can't seem to get a simple answer to a simple question.

I have a lease with Inflection.  The acreage is in the Hensler Farm unit in Hepburn Township, Lycoming County, PA.  All I want to know is how many acres are in that unit?

I even got the plat maps from DEP but still can't figure it out.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Bill


mmwv

  • Posts: 24
    • My LinkedIn page
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 05:49:44 AM »
If you visit the Lycoming courthouse or the website: https://pa.uslandrecords.com/palr2/PalrApp/index.jsp you might be able to locate a recorded unit declaration which includes the information you are seeking.

You should be able to search by your name (or the name on your lease) to find the unit declaration, as it should be indexed to each lease included.
I am an in-house Landman with Arsenal Resources.  I have worked around most of Western PA and WV, as well as on projects in several other places.  No secrets, this is me: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-ryan-miller/

macal

  • Posts: 9102
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 06:04:06 AM »



  Usually most units end up between 400 and 700 acres. In my area they are drilling multi unit wells so they can run 2 and 3 mile laterals.

Hill Billy

  • Posts: 5
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2017, 06:25:38 AM »
I always thought that something around 600 acres was typical.  Then they went to 1200 acres.  I added the acres noted on each plat map and came up with 1485.  So I suspect I did something wrong.

What I don't understand is why Denis Green with Inflection won't call me back with an answer.

I went to the site that mmwv noted but still couldn't figure it out.

I'll keep trying and will let you know what I learn.

Thanks again.

Bill

shinobi

  • Posts: 4081
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 06:26:16 AM »
I'm new to this so please forgive me for asking a question that I maybe should be asking some other place.  I have done many searches and made phone calls to Inflection Energy but can't seem to get a simple answer to a simple question.

I have a lease with Inflection.  The acreage is in the Hensler Farm unit in Hepburn Township, Lycoming County, PA.  All I want to know is how many acres are in that unit?

I even got the plat maps from DEP but still can't figure it out.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Bill

Hi Bill

I have encountered this same problem, to where sometimes even on the plat map the gas company will not state how many acres are in the unit.  It can be a challenging problem.

I agree with mmwv's suggestion.  If that does not work out:

Using your plat map you should be able at least to estimate the number of acres.  This is what I had to do.  They sent me a map, but it did not say how big the unit was!

Problem I'm having is that this happened to me probably six years ago and I cannot remember now what I did back then.  One way would be to construct a grid, each square of which has known area probably in square feet, and overlay that grid over your map.  Hopefully your map at least has distances indicated of the unit boundaries, so you would construct your grid to that scale.  Once the grid is overlaid, you count squares and estimate the percentage of any partial squares which might be inside the unit, then add everything up.  BTW, there are 43560 square feet in an acre.

There is likely a better way, but I cannot think right now what it is.  There are probably computer programs in the public domain which would give you area if you enter in a metes and bounds description of the unit, if you can extract a metes and bounds description from your map. 

shinobi

  • Posts: 4081
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2017, 06:39:18 AM »
I always thought that something around 600 acres was typical.  Then they went to 1200 acres.  I added the acres noted on each plat map and came up with 1485.  So I suspect I did something wrong.

What I don't understand is why Denis Green with Inflection won't call me back with an answer.

I went to the site that mmwv noted but still couldn't figure it out.

I'll keep trying and will let you know what I learn.

Thanks again.

Bill

Bill, me again.

To respond to your confusion about not being called back:

In order for a royalty owner to check his level of participation in a unit, the royalty owner needs to know how many acres he has in the unit, and he also needs to know the size of the unit in acres.  By not providing the latter information, any gas company makes it more difficult for us royalty owners to check up on their math.

When not all of a royalty owner's land is in a particular unit, sometimes the gas company will not even tell you how many acres of your land are participating!

This is what happened to me.  But when I checked up on the gas company's math, I found no errors.  They had been honest with me.  They just did not provide me sufficient data so I easily could double check them.

ETA

What was it President Reagan always used to say?:

"Доверяй, но проверяй"

In English:

"Trust but verify"   :)

« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 07:38:37 AM by shinobi »

Dogbone

  • Posts: 1519
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2017, 08:51:35 AM »
Keep in mind, even after you think you have the unit acreage figured out, the unit size can be changed at the whim of the gas company that owns the lease, even years down the road.  Unless the gas lease specifically states otherwise, of course.

Wax

  • Posts: 6110
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 09:37:31 AM »
I sent the editor of MarcellusGas.Org, the very same question.
Apparently, the answer is, relaxed drilling (Legislation)requirements of the gas industry. If they are not required to provide the data, they will not. Units, size, shape, are solely at the discretion of the drilling companies. (no state oversight) If they choose to leave a donut hole, they could. To the best of my knowledge.

shinobi

  • Posts: 4081
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 10:40:06 AM »
Keep in mind, even after you think you have the unit acreage figured out, the unit size can be changed at the whim of the gas company that owns the lease, even years down the road.  Unless the gas lease specifically states otherwise, of course.

FWIW I agree with Dogbone.  This actually happened to me.  However, to be fair, there was more than adequate notice and documentation provided me by the gas company.  When they changed the unit, it was not done in secret.

ghrit

  • Posts: 3211
  • Member since October 05, 2008
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 10:54:00 AM »
Keep in mind, even after you think you have the unit acreage figured out, the unit size can be changed at the whim of the gas company that owns the lease, even years down the road.  Unless the gas lease specifically states otherwise, of course.

FWIW I agree with Dogbone.  This actually happened to me.  However, to be fair, there was more than adequate notice and documentation provided me by the gas company.  When they changed the unit, it was not done in secret.
Likewise.  The original lease allowed for changes, +/- 10% with notification.  They upped it as allowed and did notify me.  The original unit documents were recorded but the changes were not sent out in a map format.
There are two kinds of ships.  Submarines and targets.
www.survivalmonkey.com

Hill Billy

  • Posts: 5
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2017, 05:49:46 AM »
OK, that's frustrating.  How is a landowner supposed to verify anything?  "Trust but verify" isn't much good when you can't verify, and that leads to mistrust.

Would Inflection give me the unit acreage if walked into their office and asked them in person?

macal

  • Posts: 9102
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2017, 06:02:12 AM »



  Are you getting royalty? If so they should have sent you division orders. Do they have your correct mailing address?

shinobi

  • Posts: 4081
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2017, 06:24:36 AM »
OK, that's frustrating.  How is a landowner supposed to verify anything?  "Trust but verify" isn't much good when you can't verify, and that leads to mistrust.

Would Inflection give me the unit acreage if walked into their office and asked them in person?

Bill, please be understanding.  All the guys here are trying to help you.  But we really do not know you, in terms I mean of your technical abilities.  You did say you have a plat map.  That map could be the secret to obtaining the information you need . . or not.  It depends on how much information is on that map, which is tough to convey in a forum like this.  I am in more than one unit so have obtained multiple plat maps over the years.  Can tell you the amount of information on them was greater earlier than more recently.  But I was able, with some effort, to work around the data deficit.

If you do not have a technical background, perhaps you could have a friend look at your map and offer you an evaluation.  And, sure, you could visit your gas company in person.  They might help you.  Just remember you will elicit more cooperation with honey than you will with vinegar.

mmwv

  • Posts: 24
    • My LinkedIn page
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2017, 08:03:06 AM »
I did a quick search at the lycoming online courthouse, and I saw a number of unit declarations from Inflection.  It also appears that the well in question may have been drilled relatively recently, so perhaps they have not recorded the unit declaration yet.  But, since there are others there, I would assume that they will eventually record one for this unit, as well.

If they are producing the well and paying royalties on it, they should have finalized the unit boundaries....but there are certainly a number of frustrating internal steps those things go through before being recorded.

Companies can be frustratingly hard to get answers from. I try to be responsive, but even I neglect to get back to some folks as quickly as I should when I am working on other things.  And around the holidays things get slowed down more than normal, of course.

I would recommend sending your request to them in writing, and also watching the courthouse for them to record a unit declaration. And if you are receiving royalty payments, you may be able to figure the answer from the information on your statement, perhaps by seeking help analyzing it from a professional of some sort or from landowners who have been dealing with this for a while.
I am an in-house Landman with Arsenal Resources.  I have worked around most of Western PA and WV, as well as on projects in several other places.  No secrets, this is me: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-ryan-miller/

Hill Billy

  • Posts: 5
Re: How many acres in a unit?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2017, 10:36:40 AM »
I'll give some of my background and provide some answers to your questions.  First let me say that I do understand that people on this forum are trying help and I really do appreciate that. I also understand the honey versus vinegar relationship.

I started my working career as a draftsman for a small civil engineering firm.  Then I actually worked on the survey crew for a year or so.  I left that company to become a draftsman for a larger production company and eventually became the drafting supervisor, among many other positions over the follow 30 years.  So when I look at the plat maps I do have at least a rough idea of what I am seeing.

On the maps that I have there is a box for total acreage. I have two maps for well #1, both dated May 4 2015.  One shows 68 total acres and the other shows 267. Well #3, dated Jan. 12, 2017, shows 369 acres and another map for well#3, dated Aug. 31, 2015 shows  370 acres.  Well #7, dated Dec. 16, 2016, shows 411 acres.

According to the guy I did manage to talk to a few weeks ago, when I questioned if my lease had expired, the wells are currently being drilled and he said we could expect royalty payments to start sometime in the late spring, 2018.

I hope this is of some help.  I do have another call in to a different phone number and left them a message.  If I do not get a timely response I will do as mentioned and write to them.

Thanks again for all of your help.

Bill

 


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