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Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!

  • 33 Replies
  • 1310 Views
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macal

  • 10252
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2019, 05:49:42 PM »

  Hey. Trump went right after Cuomo and the Constitution Pipeline. Its On !!

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aubrey

  • 14828
  • NEWBIE
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2019, 05:53:46 PM »
Side issue, do you have or remember any law on subsurface trespass?

it happens, it's rarely prosecuted and even more rarely proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

I do know of a few instances where it was settled out of court very favorably for the landowner.

he hasn't lost any money on chk stock!  ;D ya know what that means g! his mom cut off his allowance after she caught him playing online poker in the basement again.

wj
CHANGE IT BACK!

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ghrit

  • 3726
  • Member since October 05, 2008
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2019, 06:36:26 PM »

   Briggs v Southwestern. Rule of capture
  and Trespass rulings.
Got it, thanx.
There are two kinds of ships.  Submarines and targets.
www.survivalmonkey.com

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ghrit

  • 3726
  • Member since October 05, 2008
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2019, 12:20:56 AM »

   Briggs v Southwestern. Rule of capture
  and Trespass rulings.
Got it, thanx.
Well, it does not apply to the case I'm interested in.  Looking for actual subsurface installation, say of a pipeline, done without an easement or lease.
There are two kinds of ships.  Submarines and targets.
www.survivalmonkey.com

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shinobi

  • 4259
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2019, 02:46:14 AM »
Back on topic, Trump has done the deed:

https://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/trump-order-would-make-it-harder-to-block-pipelines

Thank you, President Trump!!   However:

This action by the greatest POTUS since Reagan will surely face serious challenge, probably multiple challenges, in the liberal courts.  Highlighted in the article is the virulent opposition to this by liberal scum in NY, WA, and so forth.  Hence, the following observation:

Our pipeline prospects are 100% dependent on President Trump's reelection . . . again because of the courts and the insane amount of time such as this can take there to be ajudicated.  This matter might not reach the SCOTUS until well into Trump's second term . . . . if there is a second term.

Should any Democrat be elected POTUS, instead of President Trump, it will all be over.  Stick a fork.  No pipelines.  Look at the situation today up north in Canada.  They have a liberal asshole (Trudeau) as PM.  The guy is honoring the wishes of liberal, anti fossil fuel, jackasses in BC while ignoring the good of Canada as a whole.  The oil and gas producing provinces are hurting really badly because their ability to reach the (west Canadian) coast with their oil and gas is severely restricted by the BC crazies.  It could happen here.  It will happen here if any Democrat wins next year and becomes POTUS.

No sane royalty owner opposes President Trump's reelection.  Period. 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 02:50:25 AM by shinobi »

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macal

  • 10252
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2019, 08:19:01 AM »

  The Penn East into Jersey is getting close to a done deal. Still a lot of fight mostly from the nimbys. 

   The Constitution, which Trump mentioned directly, is another story.
  New York may or may not give them another chance.

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macal

  • 10252
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2019, 08:58:50 PM »

  Looks like he is going to push to allow
  LNG to be shipped by rail. Wow. Just in time for the Wyalusing facility.

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donegal

  • 5006
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2019, 10:24:08 AM »

   Briggs v Southwestern. Rule of capture
  and Trespass rulings.
Got it, thanx.
Well, it does not apply to the case I'm interested in. Looking for actual subsurface installation, say of a pipeline, done without an easement or lease.

Here's one for ya' Ghritter.
https://www.ien.com/regulation/news/21035850/pipeline-owes-just-450-for-trespassing

Here's a small excerpt (color mine):

A Louisiana judge ruled Thursday that a company building an oil pipeline through south Louisiana trespassed on the land of three people opposed to the project, but he allowed the work to continue while awarding the three only $150 apiece in compensation and damages.



Glad I'm not one of THEM property owners....

Donegal
We finally scuttled the Exxon Valdez (for the second time in her life), and turned in at the boatyard the ol'  gray Bismarck before she sank too..  Now I'm Captain of the most beautifulest boat ever, the "HMS HOOD", a 2012 stealth black AWD V-8 Chrysler 300.

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donegal

  • 5006
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2019, 10:52:12 AM »
Here's another place ya' might  not wanna' move to -- the U.K. where the Crown owns the rights to the oil resource.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/documents.lexology.com/18e341b3-3006-4a91-ba29-d60c587d91e1.pdf

excerpt: (color mine)
..However, the Court of Appeal described the trespass as "purely technical" as it did not interfere with
Bocardo's use or enjoyment of the land in any way. As Bocardo did not even own the oil beneath the
land (which belonged to the Crown and Star as its licensee), it had not lost any rights through the
construction and use of the pipelines.


"purely technical"....."purely technical"....looks like a screwin' , regardless of what ya' call it.

Donegal
We finally scuttled the Exxon Valdez (for the second time in her life), and turned in at the boatyard the ol'  gray Bismarck before she sank too..  Now I'm Captain of the most beautifulest boat ever, the "HMS HOOD", a 2012 stealth black AWD V-8 Chrysler 300.

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ghrit

  • 3726
  • Member since October 05, 2008
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2019, 03:55:44 PM »

   Briggs v Southwestern. Rule of capture
  and Trespass rulings.
Got it, thanx.
Well, it does not apply to the case I'm interested in. Looking for actual subsurface installation, say of a pipeline, done without an easement or lease.

Here's one for ya' Ghritter.
https://www.ien.com/regulation/news/21035850/pipeline-owes-just-450-for-trespassing

Here's a small excerpt (color mine):

A Louisiana judge ruled Thursday that a company building an oil pipeline through south Louisiana trespassed on the land of three people opposed to the project, but he allowed the work to continue while awarding the three only $150 apiece in compensation and damages.



Glad I'm not one of THEM property owners....

Donegal
Interesting, may well be applicable peripherally.  I am not opposed to the presence of a pipeline, but I sure am opposed to putting it in with no notifications or easements.  At least those folks knew about it ahead of time, even if the judge wasn't inclined to compensate the plaintiffs.
There are two kinds of ships.  Submarines and targets.
www.survivalmonkey.com

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duffy

  • 2914
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2019, 07:52:36 AM »
Wonder how the judge would rule if it was his property? Yep he'd recuse himself, that worked out well at the federal level  :o

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donegal

  • 5006
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2019, 08:54:24 AM »
Speakin' of places that Property Owners may find Law & the Courts to be a bit convoluted is Texas.  Here's a pipeline case involving Enbridge & a landowner.  Worth a read, even jus' to see if yer  Agreement need a few more paragraphs.............so ya' don't find out the hard way that there may be a difference between Temporary & Permanent Damages.
ge
https://agrilife.org/texasaglaw/2014/09/04/texas-supreme-court-issues-important-opinion-regarding-damages-to-real-property/



Here's jus' one of the tidbits: (color mine)

"...when requiring certain methods to be undertaken by a pipeline company to whom an easement has been granted, the landowner should require that any such requirements be submitted in writing to all contractors and a copy of such writing given to the landowner.  In this case, had the contractors received notice of the boring requirement prior to the pipeline being dug, this entire dispute may have been avoided.

o.k. ... O.K..... here's another one:
parties to an easement agreement may set the proper amount of compensation for damages by contact.  For example, the parties could have agreed in this case that if any trees were damaged the proper compensation to the landowner would have been a set dollar amount per tree ($100 per tree, for example).  Likewise, the parties could have agreed on a proper damage award that in the event Enbridge breached the contract.  Parties should at least consider including these types of liquidated damage clauses in agreements where calculating damages may be difficult.

Finally, landowners should be aware of the economic feasibility exception and consider including language in contracts to avoid this exception.  In this case, the Wheelers were not awarded the $300,000 in restoration damages because the court found this was grossly in excess of the $3,000 diminution in value of the economic feasibility exception.  Clearly, the Wheelers would have preferred the restoration damages.  Had they considered a contractual provision providing that the measure of damages for any injury to real property would be the cost of restoration, regardless of the diminution in value and without regard to the economic feasibility exception, they may have been able to recover the greater amount.


Hope that's not too far off topic,

Donegal

p.s. What's the difference between Temporary & Permanent Damages??  W-e-e-l, in this case about $297,000. :(
p.p.s.  Jus' havin' sumthin' in an Agreement don't guarantee that things  are gonna'  go that way.  You might have to take  action to enforce it.........but I guarantee ya' that if it ain't covered in writin', then ya' might not even have a leg to stand on,  (and that ain't no position to be in. Take it from me. ) ;)
We finally scuttled the Exxon Valdez (for the second time in her life), and turned in at the boatyard the ol'  gray Bismarck before she sank too..  Now I'm Captain of the most beautifulest boat ever, the "HMS HOOD", a 2012 stealth black AWD V-8 Chrysler 300.

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Wax

  • 6530
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2019, 05:39:32 PM »
Speakin' of places that Property Owners may find Law & the Courts to be a bit convoluted is Texas.  Here's a pipeline case involving Enbridge & a landowner.  Worth a read, even jus' to see if yer  Agreement need a few more paragraphs.............so ya' don't find out the hard way that there may be a difference between Temporary & Permanent Damages.
ge
https://agrilife.org/texasaglaw/2014/09/04/texas-supreme-court-issues-important-opinion-regarding-damages-to-real-property/



Here's jus' one of the tidbits: (color mine)

"...when requiring certain methods to be undertaken by a pipeline company to whom an easement has been granted, the landowner should require that any such requirements be submitted in writing to all contractors and a copy of such writing given to the landowner.  In this case, had the contractors received notice of the boring requirement prior to the pipeline being dug, this entire dispute may have been avoided.

o.k. ... O.K..... here's another one:
parties to an easement agreement may set the proper amount of compensation for damages by contact.  For example, the parties could have agreed in this case that if any trees were damaged the proper compensation to the landowner would have been a set dollar amount per tree ($100 per tree, for example).  Likewise, the parties could have agreed on a proper damage award that in the event Enbridge breached the contract.  Parties should at least consider including these types of liquidated damage clauses in agreements where calculating damages may be difficult.

Finally, landowners should be aware of the economic feasibility exception and consider including language in contracts to avoid this exception.  In this case, the Wheelers were not awarded the $300,000 in restoration damages because the court found this was grossly in excess of the $3,000 diminution in value of the economic feasibility exception.  Clearly, the Wheelers would have preferred the restoration damages.  Had they considered a contractual provision providing that the measure of damages for any injury to real property would be the cost of restoration, regardless of the diminution in value and without regard to the economic feasibility exception, they may have been able to recover the greater amount.


Hope that's not too far off topic,

Donegal

p.s. What's the difference between Temporary & Permanent Damages??  W-e-e-l, in this case about $297,000. :(
p.p.s.  Jus' havin' sumthin' in an Agreement don't guarantee that things  are gonna'  go that way.  You might have to take  action to enforce it.........but I guarantee ya' that if it ain't covered in writin', then ya' might not even have a leg to stand on,  (and that ain't no position to be in. Take it from me. ) ;)
I am not a big fan of temporary workspace payments. Once the land is cleared of trees, in my lifetime it is permanent.

The only pipeline contract worth a hoot is the Laser Pipeline Contract.  The company could have paid the landowners ,ten time the amount and still made a fortune when they sold to Williams. I highly doubt there has been a better contract for any landowners since.

Having a judge set a value on pipeline property is a bad idea. You could not afford a attorney, on what they would award a landowner.
Judge ordered the maple trees cut for the Constitution Pipeline about three years back, and project still frozen. Pennsylvania has the lowest hurdle for pipeline companies to meet.  Not trying to derail a project, but will not give it away without a reasonable increase to my finances.

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insuranceman

  • 1365
  • Mem. May 9, 2008
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2019, 08:59:28 PM »
You must go into a ROW negotiation planning to go back & forth for awhile. I was mostly satisfied with the result form the Constitution line. I also signed for temporary space , which the time has now expired & will need to be readdressed  once it goes underway. Not a pushover, but they moved the line to accommodate me, met monetary expectations, even came back three times to reseed the property when pipe did not go in as expected. only disappointment so far, was stacking of cut timber, which was put in an area not actually accessible to anyone. I am prepared for the line to begin if given the green light.
From May 2008,A long learning experience.100 plus acres in Susq. Co. core.,

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Wax

  • 6530
Re: Trump Going to Houston to Announce Pipeline Executive Order!
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2019, 11:20:24 PM »
You must go into a ROW negotiation planning to go back & forth for awhile. I was mostly satisfied with the result form the Constitution line. I also signed for temporary space , which the time has now expired & will need to be readdressed  once it goes underway. Not a pushover, but they moved the line to accommodate me, met monetary expectations, even came back three times to reseed the property when pipe did not go in as expected. only disappointment so far, was stacking of cut timber, which was put in an area not actually accessible to anyone. I am prepared for the line to begin if given the green light.
Correct me if I am wrong ! Your negotiation planning was part of a group in NY , represented by an attorney ?