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This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting

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donk

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2009, 08:30:23 AM »
I guess this shut-in stuff confuses me a bit.  So if they drill a well and cap it, they only have to pay $20 per acre per year while it's capped.  And, if they don't do anything with it after 36 months or something, you're released from the lease?

Is this pretty standard with most companies?  How about the FG lease (not sure how to view that, so asking here).  Seems pretty low to me.  Also, how often does this happen I wonder?  I know there were some statements in there about them having to do everything possible to utilize the well, but who makes the final decision if they're actually doing that?

I guess my main question is if this stuff is pretty standard and normal, with normal terms provided if/when it happens?

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bigbucks

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2009, 09:10:37 AM »
This paragraph is troubling and confusing and could best be resolved if is was written as two separate paragraphs.


(iv) Lessee shall not use, dispose or release on the leased premises or permit to exist or be used, disposed of or released on the leased premises as a result of its operations, any substances (other than those Lessee has been licensed or permitted to use on the leased premises) which is defined as a ?hazardous material?, ?toxic substance?, or ?solid waste? in applicable federal, state or local laws, statutes or ordinances.


Lessee shall not use on the leased premises or permit to exist or be used, any substances other than those Lessee has been licenced or permitted to use on the leased premise.

Lessee shall not dispose or release on the leased premises as a result of it's operations any substances which is defined as a ?hazardous material?, ?toxic substance?, or ?solid waste? in applicable federal, state or local laws, statutes or ordinances.
 

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guardian

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2009, 09:15:12 AM »
I guess this shut-in stuff confuses me a bit.  So if they drill a well and cap it, they only have to pay $20 per acre per year while it's capped.  And, if they don't do anything with it after 36 months or something, you're released from the lease?

Is this pretty standard with most companies?  How about the FG lease (not sure how to view that, so asking here).  Seems pretty low to me.  Also, how often does this happen I wonder?  I know there were some statements in there about them having to do everything possible to utilize the well, but who makes the final decision if they're actually doing that?

I guess my main question is if this stuff is pretty standard and normal, with normal terms provided if/when it happens?

Apologize unable to respond to all your points.  I do want to observe shutting in a well is not all bad.  If gas prices are at rock bottom, I WANT them to shut in my well.  I don't want to be giving my gas away, the only gas I will ever own.

I do believe shut-in provisions are pretty standard lease addenda . . . . even most boiler plate leases have something about shutting in the well.

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guardian

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2009, 09:33:25 AM »
Thanks guard,

How about this one.

 "The right to use said pipelines terminates when production from the leased premises permanently ceases and all wells associated therewith plugged and abandoned."

Couldn't there be a significant amount of time between "ceases production" and "permanently plugged and abandoned"?

Shouldn't there be a time limit?

Quite possibly so.

But your question raises a still larger point:

We as human beings are forced to live within our cognitive limits.  It is very difficult for a single person, or even for a small group of persons, to conjure every possible outcome, every eventuality, following lease signing.

Add to that fact the intense interest each party to the lease has in guarding its prerogatives and priorities, and you can begin to grasp the difficulty one faces in attempting to create such a document.

Thus from me, an additional tip of the cap to those here attempting to wade through the muck and mire.  It is certainly not easy!
   


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LCW

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2009, 09:58:28 AM »
And over-negotiating can absolutely kill a deal.

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aubrey

  • 14991
  • NEWBIE
Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2009, 10:20:23 AM »
this is one convoluted piece of legaleze.

the royalty clause,(page), is not clear to me at all. it seems to continue chks' adherance to deductions for market enhancement.

also, the "reasonable damages" for pipeline activities troubles me.

gonna be a very long read, followed by professional interpretation. cicero, ithacajack any initial thoughts here?

still reading and rereading.

wj

CHANGE IT BACK!

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bigbucks

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2009, 10:27:55 AM »
Just playing devil's advocate here...this is forever...............................

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JETHRO

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2009, 10:28:22 AM »
BOY AM I GLAD I HAVE YOU GUYS!!!  KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!

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EFK

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2009, 10:43:31 AM »
Not to try and start an "us vs. them" conflict, but after reading through this lease I am increasingly glad that I decided to stick with FG and completely blew-off the frantic CHK calls the past few days.  This thing seems much more complicated and "lawyer-friendly" as opposed to landowner-friendly (not that it doesn't have some good points, don't get me wrong).

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Berak

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2009, 10:45:58 AM »
I agree, reading this one compared to FG, it is much harder to read and interpret this lease.

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guardian

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2009, 11:00:14 AM »
BOY AM I GLAD I HAVE YOU GUYS!!!  KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!


STOP it, Jethro.  Cease and desist.  It is now officially time to stop drinking beer . . . . . .

and begin to imbibe A.L.E.

[A.L.E. = Avoid Legal Entanglement]

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aubrey

  • 14991
  • NEWBIE
Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2009, 11:06:43 AM »
im trying to work thru the allusion to royalty "in kind".

anyone else picking this up?

wj
CHANGE IT BACK!

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JETHRO

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2009, 11:08:38 AM »
NOTHIN BUT STRAIGHT UP COFFEE HERE GUARD .. AS MUCH AS JIM SEEMS TO LIKE TO MAKE ME OUT AS A COORS SWILLIN HICK I AM ACTUALLY STILL RECOVERING FROM THE M.A.O....WELL OOPS OK ME AND THE NEIGHBOR DID HAVE A FEW DURING THE WEEK ...AND I AM STILL RECOVERING  8)

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Countrygal

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2009, 11:16:50 AM »
I didn't notice anyone answer Jethro's earlier question....but then again...I haven't had enough (straightup) coffee yet today anyhow....

Jethro?  You put on your form whatever your tax bill says you have acreage wise, whether or not there is more or less (they'll find out, really)  At the time of signing, you get a check for $1000 per acre, the balance by Dec 31, 09, once they've had time to complete all these title/deed searches.

The timing of the balance payment is important. It means it'll all be in this tax year under this tax years laws (ie, before anyone -coughmrobama- pushes changes through. Plus, your regular taxes will only take the 'higher tax bracket' hit for one year, not two. Unless, of course, you get a well next year....in which case I'm assuming you wouldn't mind being in a higher tax bracket two years in a row  ;D  Enjoy the coffee, Cheers!)

Best,
-CG

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guardian

Re: This Is The Real Wyoming Group Lease - Authorized by C. Lines for posting
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2009, 11:49:54 AM »
I didn't notice anyone answer Jethro's earlier question....but then again...I haven't had enough (straightup) coffee yet today anyhow....

Jethro?  You put on your form whatever your tax bill says you have acreage wise, whether or not there is more or less (they'll find out, really)  At the time of signing, you get a check for $1000 per acre, the balance by Dec 31, 09, once they've had time to complete all these title/deed searches.

The timing of the balance payment is important. It means it'll all be in this tax year under this tax years laws (ie, before anyone -coughmrobama- pushes changes through. Plus, your regular taxes will only take the 'higher tax bracket' hit for one year, not two. Unless, of course, you get a well next year....in which case I'm assuming you wouldn't mind being in a higher tax bracket two years in a row  ;D  Enjoy the coffee, Cheers!)

Best,
-CG

It's a good point.  But don't fall into the same trap I fell into:

I thought the Bush cuts ended on 1/1/10.  The reality is they expire on 1/1/11.

Other posters here correctly pointed out the unlikelihood of a 2010 tax rate hike, given the 11/2010 election and the unwillingness of our Congress people to commit political suicide.

All of that said, I continue to harbor a concern tax rates for the VERY rich could increase in 2010, given so (relatively) few taxpayers would be penalized, and given the need our Federal Government has for tax revenue.  And persons here with a significant amount of land would be impacted if this happened.

But even for for the very rich, nothing is at all certain.  Nobody knows what's going to happen.

My own approach would be to negotiate an agreement allowing the payment timing decision to be delayed as long as possible.  It's possible, once this health care thing is put to bed, tax matters might receive more attention and and more detail might become known.